This is incorrect. Adding a good tune will almost always increase fuel mileage. Not only are you adding power, but you're making the engine work more efficiently. There are a lot more factors at play than just how much fuel you're dumping into the engine. Why do you think a 6.2L Corvette with 600 HP gets the same or better fuel mileage than a similar sporty coupe with a small 4 cylinder? It's because the engine doesn't have to work as hard to move the vehicle. Yes, the engine uses more fuel, but making more power at lower RPM's allows it to operate more efficiently. The same goes for any diesel truck engine. These trucks have a factory tune that is a "one size fits all" option for every truck off the line. They're tuned so that they can be produced in volume without any fine tuning or individual calibration to each truck, and they need to add longevity and cost efficiency to the trucks. Just because you don't see a need for tuning your own truck, doesn't mean that tunes are worthless. It's just another way to fine tune the truck for a specific purpose, just like adding a gooseneck ball or mud terrain tires.

Deleting will absolutely increase fuel mileage by 2-3 MPG, all other variables remaining the same. There's a ton of data on this and thousands of forum posts documenting it.

The fact that the EGR and DPF systems are built by engineers with experience and a big budget are irrelevant. Sure they're probably great engineers, but they have a lot of variables and constraints with their designs. They're building trucks to meet emissions, crash tests, DOT regulations, Ford production timelines, hit a targeted retail price and profit margin, maintain a certain cost of ownership and reduce claims under the warranty period, etc. If they could build the "best truck" possible with no other stipulations, the 6.7L would be vastly different than what they put in current trucks, and you'd see the EGR and DPF systems gone overnight. The engine they have designed is the best they could do while still meeting all the requirements of the government and Ford corporate. That doesn't mean it's a perfect engine.

 

Great thread going here. Another good thing about tuning the truck is the transmission tuning included with the tunes. While some may like the factory trans shifting strategy, I think it's horrible. In normal mode, it shifts into the higher gears way too quick and lags the engine. Even in tow/haul mode, which I drive around in most of the time, the shifting is goofy and erratic at times. So improved shifting is not a bad thing. I'm still stock so I'll let someone with experience like Ski give details on the tuning trans shifting improvements.

 

So I guess you are smarter than a guy that went to MIT to study this. There is NO way a caned tune will fine tune your truck. Load of crap you got better fuel millage. You spent $2,500 and now you spew pollutants into the air.. Only way to fine tune your truck is to take it to a dyno where they can measure the fuel curve and set some safe pentameters on timing.
Besides you are telling me that Ford with it's deep pockets are selling a truck that isnt as fuel efficient as possible. That some dude who sells a tune with a fits all trucks deal is better than Ford is not true. It has not been proven that getting more horse power can be achieved without adding more fuel. Adding more air doesn't increase power other solution is to add more of both. Fuel needs a certain amount of air to combust efficiently. To much fuel and you waste it. To little and you will explode parts. A/F needs to be spot on... It always boils down to fuel. It's what makes the wheels go around. Take this stuff off your truck if you want. You spent $8,000 on this motor and it wasn't good enough from Ford. You should have bought a Chevy

 

Ford, GM, RAM, etc. get the best MPG they can with the researching and engineering talent they have for their specific designs while working within the regulations and company defined restrictions. However, with a proper tune from a company that understands what they're doing (probably not more skilled than a department of Ford engineers without all of their data) and lack of the active regeneration process which consumes fuel, you will gain the active regeneration fuel loss.

Anyone (not many but I have heard it) who says they'll delete a healthy stock truck for an overall savings due to increased MPG and no DEF didn't research or chose to ignore the cost of the aftermarket products. However, if you are looking at a $2,000 repair of emissions related hardware or resolving the issue with a $2,000 aftermarket weight loss program, a MPG increase without increasing HP is highly likely.

 

When my truck was stock, I hated the shift into 6th gear at 38 MPH and the engine at 900 RPM with 3.55 rear. When I needed to accelerate, not much happened and soot built rapidly. With both 5* and DP-Tuner, the shift to 6th is around 45 mph and down shifting happens faster. Both tunes extended my regens by 100 miles or so, and I believe the trans tuning combined with better engine tuning are responsible for that. Saying Ford does a better tuning job is like saying the oil companies give us the best diesel product possible. They are in the business of making money, period.
The only evidence they care for the driving experience is the addition of "Sport Mode" to the F150 Ecoboost in 2015 which is basically a transmission tune.
Additional info: I believe I did an extensive tune review here or at Powerstroke forum. To summerize, I liked the 5* tow/daily better for daily driving and the DP-Tuner 35HP Heavy Tow better for towing. Some tweaks from Jody made it equal to 5* for daily driving. I liked the DP 50HP Light tow/daily best of all but my tow load is right on the line at 10K and I was a little concerned about 23psi boost when pulling mountain grades. 5* tended to hunt gears at the speeds I usually tow on New England secondary roads and made a high pitched pinging under heavy load that some describe as too much injector timing. So the DP-Tuner 35HP Heavy tow is my tune of choice for towing and the 50HP Light tow/daily for kick butt fun driving.

 

 

6th gear with 3.31 gears is even more annoying! Sure it downshifts (sometimes eventually) but in traffic, it's too much gear hunting.

 

I've seen mileage increases, with a slight performance bump, in my wife's Mercedes diesel just by coding out the EGR. Diesels run on heat and pressure and stopping the EGR increases the temperature, making the engine run more efficiently with cleaner burning. Her DPF is still in place and regens have become less frequent. She gained close to 2MPG.

The emmissions systems are fuel consuming performance robbers. A well tuned diesel runs pretty clean on it's own. If Ford, or any other manufacturer had a choice, they wouldn't put the systems on the motors. Just look at VW and Dodge disabling them except for emissions testing, that tells you everything you need to know

 

EGR is a good point.

Ski, does your Five Star programming bypass the EGR cooler? I didn't think about that earlier which, in my thinking, would certainly create more efficient combustion and increase EGT to the DPF.

 

You completely missed the point of my post. I am not claiming to be smarter than the MIT engineer. I'm saying the MIT engineer has 70 supervisors, and 10 government agencies and 10 million share holders all limiting what he can do with the engine, the transmission and the rest of the truck. Ford builds the 6.7L to have the best balance of power and fuel efficiency while also meeting all the other criteria required to sell a truck in the US. They have to meet emissions standards, crash test ratings, safety factors, on top of making it profitable to sell and service under warranty. All of those factors require them to compromise in other areas, one of those being power and fuel efficiency. You can't possibly think the factory emissions-on configuration is the most efficient these trucks get. Look at trucks from pre-EGR production years. They'd consistently get 20% better fuel mileage than today's trucks, and that's with technology from 20 years ago. You honestly think a modern 6.7L can't do better than what rolls off the factory line? That's just spewing ignorance. And yes, it absolutely gets better fuel mileage deleted. That is 100% fact. There's more to fuel mileage than just how much fuel you dump into the engine.

The factory engine is built in a standardized configuration and with standardized tuning to provide the best balance for the general population of truck buyers. It's made to be the most profitable option that meets most people's needs. That doesn't mean it's perfect for everyone, or that people can't improve their own vehicles to meet their own needs. Do you not put any aftermarket parts on your vehicle? Do you only buy OEM tires for your truck? Does it make me smarter than an engineer to know I need quality all terrain tires on my truck, rather than the OEM street tires that are installed to save on cost?

 

No, but it does soften the torque management some. You still have to disable traction control to light up the rear tires.

 

[QUOTE=bcg;18329517]I've seen mileage increases, with a slight performance bump, in my wife's Mercedes diesel just by coding out the EGR. Diesels run on heat and pressure and stopping the EGR increases the temperature, making the engine run more efficiently with cleaner burning. Her DPF is still in place and regens have become less frequent. She gained close to 2MPG.

The emissions systems are fuel consuming performance robbers. A well tuned diesel runs pretty clean on it's own. If Ford, or any other manufacturer had a choice, they wouldn't put the systems on the motors. Just look at VW and Dodge disabling them except for emissions testing, that tells you everything you need to know[/QUOTE]

You make great points here. By injecting exhaust into the intake tract, you reduce the amount of oxygen available which has to reduce power somewhat and is supposed to reduce the amount of NOx produced. I get we all want clean Air and to reduce pollution, but I think a point has to be made here that these engines are strapped with all this emissions equipment on it. I also believe that the EPA places too high a standard to achieve which not only places a higher cost onto the consumers, but also possibly reduces equipment life.

Your last sentence pretty much says it all. I'm not an engineer but just a guy who questions everything. Your last point may support the idea that these mandates may be unrealistic and possibly unachievable. Did anyone see the ads on social media by a law firm for a class action suit on behalf of Ford 6.7 Powerstroke owners on the factory tuning strategy that apparently disables the emissions equipment just like RAM and VW? You may have made a valid point brother...

 

I swore that I would never have a diesel engine because of the stink, smoke and noise. When I saw those issues were resolved on newer diesels and saw the diesel advantages, I bought my 2015 Powerstroke to replace my 2011 F150 Ecoboost. While the emissions equipment has its drawbacks, there is no way I would go back to clouds of smelly black smoke. Instead, I minimize the emissions issues with fuel additives (Opti-Lube Summer Plus and Enerburn) and a DP-Tuner tow tune. I've seen the videos of deleted trucks belching smoke and I don't want that in my lungs or water. I get 11-12mpg towing vs 9 with the Ecoboost and I match the Ecoboost on the highway with 20 mpg non-towing. Not bad for an 8000 lb truck.

 

This is the result of tuning, either because of ineptness or someone intentionally making smoke because it's "cool." My 7.3 rarely smoked once tuned, only occasionally under hard acceleration with a load and even then, typically just right at the beginning of the acceleration. My 6.7 actually smokes a little more than my 7.3 did but, again it's only at the beginning of hard acceleration, the 6.7 just does it both empty or loaded. I think some tuning tweaks can reduce the smoke, for now I'm just easing into the accelerator. Nobody with a brain really wants soot coming out the tailpipe, especially in huge clouds. Diesel is too expensive to waste like that.

I really question whether these emissions requirements actually have a net reduction in pollution. While I agree that you do pollute less per gallon burned with the systems in place, you burn more fuel with them as well so when you take the additional fuel use into account, does it really come out to a net decrease? I'm not good enough at math to figure it out for sure, I wish someone that is would answer the question definitively.

 

Have run 3 tunes on my 2016; DP tuner; Rudy’s diesel; and Tyrant. DP I really liked the trans strategy, didn’t notice much power change, Rudy, I saw the 2-3mpg with delete, but didn’t care for trans strategy, particularly when it was cold. Tyrant has been great, maybe a haze off idle for aggressive start but otherwise very clean, trans strategy is very similar to that of DP. If you are going to delete, I am happy with Tyrant, if you want to keep all the emissions; DP-Tuner is highly recommended. Honestly I am bummed they will not do a delete tune, but respect their decisions, Jody is top notch.