IPR question
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From: Spiro
IPR question
Question, when the engine control computer commands the IPR to 85% when trying to start is it a constant voltage that can be read with a digital voltmeter? Reason I'm asking is I'm chasing a no start condition. Right now I have no FICM sync, and I'll be checking the connections at the camshaft and crankshaft later. What I have done was apply 12 volts to the IPR, put a 5K pressure gauge in the IPC side, cranked the engine with the starter wire and within several seconds got to at least 2.5K pressure before I stopped cranking, you could hear the engine start to slow own because of the pressure build, so the HPOP was doing its thing (new from Ford). I'm thinking that maybe the wiring harness has an open or short in it. How would you check the harness, ohm it out, or continuity from what point to what point. And last does anyone have the engine wiring harness pinout, what pin on the connector to where in the harness?
Fleet Owner
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The IPR valve is "duty cycled". It is a fast operating open/closed valve. It is duty cycled by the PCM when a ground is applied at the commanded cycle. It is either open to dumping the oil (when the ground has not been applied) or the drain flow path is closed to achieve max pressure (when the PCM applied ground completes the 12V circuit).
Fleet Owner
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Not sure of the B+ wire color at the connector, but on the IPR connector, Pin 1 is VPower (switched power) and Pin 2 is the ground from the PCM connector.
So you could always verify that you had B+ voltage w/ the key on at Pin 1 of the connector.
Pin #2 of C1381c (the middle of the three PCM connectors between the driver side battery and the inner driver side fender well which requires the battery cover to be removed to access) which will be a yellow wire with red stripe. This is the ground side wire to the IPR.
I would have to dig a little to get you any more than that. Maybe someone else has it at their fingertips!
Here is a good pic of the connector
http://www.dieselorings.com/14-023-ipr-ebp-solenoid-repair-connector-genuine-ford-6e7z-12a690-da.html
https://fordpartsone.com/products/ipr-vgt-solenoid-connector-pigtail
So you could always verify that you had B+ voltage w/ the key on at Pin 1 of the connector.
Pin #2 of C1381c (the middle of the three PCM connectors between the driver side battery and the inner driver side fender well which requires the battery cover to be removed to access) which will be a yellow wire with red stripe. This is the ground side wire to the IPR.
I would have to dig a little to get you any more than that. Maybe someone else has it at their fingertips!
Here is a good pic of the connector
http://www.dieselorings.com/14-023-ipr-ebp-solenoid-repair-connector-genuine-ford-6e7z-12a690-da.html
https://fordpartsone.com/products/ipr-vgt-solenoid-connector-pigtail
Fleet Owner
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Pete - the PC/ED says that if the ICP isn't at 500 psig (or actually the equivalent voltage) then the FICM won't sync. There are some that disagree with that, but that is the way the manual reads to me. The way I read his thread, he got pressure only when manually closing the IPR. That said, he should have gotten FICM sync at that point, unless the rpms were too low.
Lead Driver
Joined: Dec 2006
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From: So. Jersey
You also won't get FICM sync if you don't have cam/crank sync first which is what I'd verify first.
Maybe I'm missing something or misread his post. I'll go back & re-read.
Maybe I'm missing something or misread his post. I'll go back & re-read.
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Fleet Owner
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I don't think you will get an IPR duty cycle command (above the default of 14%) if you don't have cam/crank sync. Could be wrong, but that is what I recall.
It certainly is a good practice to verify cam/crank sync as the first thing though!
It certainly is a good practice to verify cam/crank sync as the first thing though!
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Lead Driver
Joined: Dec 2006
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From: So. Jersey
Question, when the engine control computer commands the IPR to 85% when trying to start is it a constant voltage that can be read with a digital voltmeter? Reason I'm asking is I'm chasing a no start condition. Right now I have no FICM sync, and I'll be checking the connections at the camshaft and crankshaft later. What I have done was apply 12 volts to the IPR, put a 5K pressure gauge in the IPC side, cranked the engine with the starter wire and within several seconds got to at least 2.5K pressure before I stopped cranking, you could hear the engine start to slow own because of the pressure build, so the HPOP was doing its thing (new from Ford). I'm thinking that maybe the wiring harness has an open or short in it. How would you check the harness, ohm it out, or continuity from what point to what point. And last does anyone have the engine wiring harness pinout, what pin on the connector to where in the harness?
Fleet Owner
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Believe me, I hear you, but the difference is FICM sync vs cam/crank sync. No doubt you always diagnose cam/crank sync problems first. Simply saying "no sync" doesn't communicate the entire picture though since there are two syncs and loss of either one potentially has different meanings.
You can have cam/crank sync but not have FICM sync (right or wrong that is what I inferred of the OP's situation). Since he stated he does not have FICM sync, it could be related to high pressure oil. Above the minimum rpm and minimum ICP are conditions for FICM sync, not necessarily for cam/crank sync.
He could EASILY clear it up by posting whether or not he has Cam/crank sync. That said, I have seen posts where the OP got the equations reversed for the two syncs - makes it hard to troubleshoot.
You can have cam/crank sync but not have FICM sync (right or wrong that is what I inferred of the OP's situation). Since he stated he does not have FICM sync, it could be related to high pressure oil. Above the minimum rpm and minimum ICP are conditions for FICM sync, not necessarily for cam/crank sync.
He could EASILY clear it up by posting whether or not he has Cam/crank sync. That said, I have seen posts where the OP got the equations reversed for the two syncs - makes it hard to troubleshoot.
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From: Spiro
According to my Edge SCT, I do not have FICM Sync, my cranking is 170 to 180 RPM, FICM voltage 48.5 while cranking, IPR starts at 14% then climbs to 85% when cranking, ICP pressure only gets to 300 lbs, batteries are new. I know I should work on FICM sync first, but this no start problem has had me stumped for several months now, started with a bad ICP sensor and had gone downhill since then. It hit me the other day that possibly a bad connection at the IPR valve in the harness might be part of the no start because I was getting FICM sync, but low ICP readings off the sensor, so I pulled the ICP plug and it still would not start, although the computer would tell the system it now had like 700 lbs at the ICP, IPR would read 14%.
I'm not sure how to check cam and crank sensors other than checking connectors (I"m sure its covered somewhere in here).
I'm not sure how to check cam and crank sensors other than checking connectors (I"m sure its covered somewhere in here).
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Do you have cam/crank sync? As stated above, it is different than FICM sync.
If cranking ICP only gets to 300 psig with the IPR commanded at 85%, that is not a cam/crank sync issue (ie loss of sync will not keep the ICP pressure low as long as the IPR duty cycle is commanded above the 14% minimum). A bad crank sensor can result in the IPR defaulting to 14%, so it CAN affect ICP pressure, but you will see it in the IPR command.
An rpm signal pretty much means that the crank sensor is ok. A bad cam sensor can cause a lack of FICM sync (and it is possible to have cam/crank sync even w/ a bad cam sensor), but it wouldn't cause the low cranking ICP value. Low cranking ICP can cause a lack of FICM sync, but not a loss of cam/crank sync. At least that is the way I have understood it.
If cranking ICP only gets to 300 psig with the IPR commanded at 85%, that is not a cam/crank sync issue (ie loss of sync will not keep the ICP pressure low as long as the IPR duty cycle is commanded above the 14% minimum). A bad crank sensor can result in the IPR defaulting to 14%, so it CAN affect ICP pressure, but you will see it in the IPR command.
An rpm signal pretty much means that the crank sensor is ok. A bad cam sensor can cause a lack of FICM sync (and it is possible to have cam/crank sync even w/ a bad cam sensor), but it wouldn't cause the low cranking ICP value. Low cranking ICP can cause a lack of FICM sync, but not a loss of cam/crank sync. At least that is the way I have understood it.
Fleet Owner
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The Edge should show both Cam/crank Sync and FICM sync. They are both PCM PIDs. My ScangaugeII does and so does TorquePro and ForScan.
Do you have a Mass Fuel Desired value when cranking? This is a PCM value sent to the FICM (once cam/crank sync is achieved) for fueling calculations and commands (ie fuel pulse width, etc).
Another check would be if you do get FICM sync with the ICP disconnected.
Do you have a Mass Fuel Desired value when cranking? This is a PCM value sent to the FICM (once cam/crank sync is achieved) for fueling calculations and commands (ie fuel pulse width, etc).
Another check would be if you do get FICM sync with the ICP disconnected.