Hello All,

Been forever since I've Logged in.

Looking for some advice. I had a 2010 Ford Expedition EL limited which we used to two our 30' Travel Trailer and our family of 6. Got totaled early October, and we've replaced with a 2015 EL Limited ecoboost.
I have a commuter car that does not do what i need for the family, so i'm looking to add another vehicle. A post on expedition portal (overlanding, not the vehicle) shows one of their editors with a 2000 X they've started a build on.
When we do our camping trips to the cape, or the National Seashore in maryland we've always wanted to go Over Sand exploring but the expedition wasn't set up for it. This whole long paragraph has led me to my search, a Ford Excursion.

This is where i need your help.

I originally started out wanting a diesel. No real reason, maybe it's the mariner in me, or the truck guy, or the fact I never want to say, I wish I had that extra capability. So I started the myriad of searches and have gone back and forth, 7.3 / 6.0. I was all set to purchase an '04 X in WA state. 123k miles, seemed to be the perfect blend of add ons to help the engine and make a great tow rig, that i could expand into medium Overland/Sand/hunting rig. But that last minute he took the easy sale for cash and left me stranded.

Now i'm back into the search. I've found a nice looking '05 in Fl, I've seen a nice '00 7.3 in WI. But then getting on the forums again for thedieselstop, and here, I still get the RUN RUN RUN from the 6.0 and watch the transmission! for any 7.3.

I want a good tow rig for my family of 6. I actually prefer the 8 seater model. I'm actually planning on putting a jumpseat in the middle and either going with a 9 seater, or 8 if the second row had the captains. I want the ability to upgrade TT later and not worry about it. My current one I always calculate at 8700# for conservative means, (6700# dry, 7700# GCW, 8700# once front windage is accounted). I was within the capabilities of the expedition, but I feel right at max with everyone and gear accouted. It never gave us a pause or reason to doubt it, I could do another expedition for myself, but really wanted the extra margin I can gain in the X.

I guess I could go with the V-10, as it is the big brother of the 5.4. I just felt the early models were gutless compaired to the later 3V. Which was never installed in the X correct?
I've seen and respect the 7.3L, love the idea of the '00 models with the forged rods, but like the improved creature comforts with the '02 early '03. Just really leery of the 4R100 transmission. After driving the 6R80 for a couple years I'm concerned how i'll like it driving. And after years of driving gas, mostly turbo'd, i'm concerned i'll find it very slow.
So then i'm at the much debated 6.0. I've basically talked myself out of the first gens. But late '04 to the final runs in '05 I've felt, and heard fewer issues. '06 and '07 in the pickups even fewer still. I even went and test drove an '05 today, but alas, as always here in New England, even though it ran great, I could see rust at the bottom of every door, hitch etc. I like how the 6.0 sounds with exhaust mods, the pickup and acceleration, the feel of the 5 speed transmission, all good. I'm just concerned with the people who are like, there is no good 6.0, just a currently not broke. I really don't want to be in the middle of one of our 2-3K mile trips and be dead. Or 30 miles down the beach in Assateauge and kaputz. But i've seen plenty of 6.0 that have no problems, driven plenty of miles, and some have required no 'fixes'. I'm just lost.

Give me your thought guys, i'm sure the 6.0 guys with say that way, the 7.3 guys theirs, and the V-10'ers saying all is not bad in gas land.

Here is a link to a couple of the rigs i'm looking at.
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing


Thanks
Matt

 

 

 

You're missing one option. I've seen properly converted Fummins Excursions for under 20k much less in some cases. If I was to go back and do it again, I've have started with one already done.

 

As has been said, either of the diesels is a good option, but they do require constant TLC to stay in top shape. I was biased towards the 7.3 and so bought my 2nd 7.3 recently from FL. The V10 is not too far from the competition, but IMO, the cost of fill ups kind of offsets the other advantages. Here's my take though. 1- try to look for the next EX in the south, where they were least exposed to the snow melting chemicals. 2 - IMO, try and find an unmolested 6.0 (if that's your choice) and then perform the required work to make it your own robust tow rig to ensure that work is done by you/under your supervision/to your liking etc. rather than have to guess all the work that was done by the PO.

My first 7.3 came from PA, was untouched, and performed like a champ. I jumped the gun to dispose it rather than work on it when I started seeing the signs of rust. So, for the second one, I went down to Orlando and picked up a 7.3 from a used car dealer. This time, I took out the rust variable, but now I am faced with some issue that are probably due to the PO's work - electrical, tuning, etc., that's kept it sitting for almost 2 months. Every time I seem to get 1 step closer to the solution only to find another issue caused by work that was done improperly in the past.

 

Wow, this is like the ultimate oil thread, right?

While I have a 7.3, the V-10s seem to be nearly problem free (with a few well-documented and preventable/easily repairable exceptions) compared to either diesel. Some will claim their fuel economy puts them out of the running, but a modded 7.3 drinking the more expensive fuel makes it a closer race in terms of expense. The downside is there is not a whole lot you can easily do to a V-10 to get anything more than a marginal degree of additional performance out of it. Upping tire size may require a gear change if you intend to tow big numbers as well. Perhaps the best news is, 10-hole gassers in great shape can be had at silly low prices in the southwest and California.

Either of the Diesels will require some investment to make them worry-free (if that's really possible). My research leads me to believe that the 6.0 will require more in preventive alterations up front than a 7.3, but once done, the 6.0 has some advantages like a more robust transmission, an additional gear, and more out-of-the-box power as well. While looking for two years for the right Ex, I picked up a lot of opinions and saw a lot of trucks along the way... my observation is that the 7.3 seems to be stout right from the factory, even with PMR rods, up to nearly double the factory rated output - a figure too easily achieved with a credit card, a catalog or two, and a driveway to work in. There are a few things to upgrade and monitor transmission health, most would consider them necessary for towing.

One thing a farmer with a fleet of high-mileage 6.0's pointed out to me is that most of the 6.0's "issues" aren't issues until/unless someone tries to make more power with them. My stepdaughter has a 6.0 Ex that has zero mods, and it has had no mechanical issues to speak of (though it's only at 135k). I don't know how true that is across the board, and getting increasingly rare considering how irresistable it seems to be for the 2nd or 3rd owner to bolt on a programmer to coax another 140HP out of it. Compare that to the 7.3 with its well-documented history of premature transmission issues, even at unmodified power levels.

If I had been able to find a clean, late 6.0 that hadn't been messed with, I would have probably gone that route and been very happy. As luck would have it, after I had given up hope of finding a decent Ex, I stumbled across a moderately high-mile 7.3 at an irresistable price - and commenced to draining my bank account into it.

Good luck with your search.

 

 

Hi Matt,

I've had a number of diesels over the years and while certainly great for their towing ability I prefer the V10 for three main reasons. 1) I only tow a heavy trailer (11K) a few times a year for no more than a few hundred miles each time. 2) I'm in Northeast Pa near the NY border and just don't like dealing with diesels in the winter even with the additives and I see you're in NH. 3) maintenance costs. Just my $0.02.

Matt

 

Matt, what "extra" capability are you talking about? The 2v V10 may be less thrilling than the 3V, but capability vs capability, there isn't anything a PSD powered Excursion can do versus a V10 powered Excursion except maybe get better fuel mileage across the board, and cost you more for maintenance over the long run.

Don't get me wrong, the V10 isn't my cup of tea (I don't like how the power curve comes on as you press the accelerator, just a personal preference thing) and I much prefer the characteristics of the PSD throttle, but realistically, the V10 does everything the PSD does. Stock for stock, the pecking order for towing up a grade and making it to the top with an almost capacity weight in real world trials is 6.0, then V10, then 7.3L....in stock form. All that changes as soon as the PSD's and gasser is modified.

Stewart

 

 

I have both diesels and speak well on both of them

My 2001 7.3 Rudolph was bought new with 50 miles on him and 17 years later has 468K. In that time the ONLY major catastrophic repair was the transmission failing due to the mechanical diode found in 7.3 Excursions built between July 2000 and March 2001. Since the Ford reman was installed with a few upgrades of my own, the trans has held together well 341K later. With regard to the transmission, there are plenty of upgrades that help it last: 6.0 trans cooler, and take your pick of the three available valve body upgrades listed in order of preference: BTS, Factory Tech, John Wood. Between regular fluid flushes per Mark Kovalski's method, my trans has survived Full Force 160 injectors, a 38R, and some of the heaviest loads all while sitting up and begging for more. So while the folks on Dieselstop may be a little paranoid of the transmission, if it's been rebuilt, it's been revised, and you don't have anything to worry about.

With regard to the engine, again, there are PLENTY of upgrades from our forum sponsor that overcome the engineering shortcuts that keep these trucks from running their best. I've installed all of them (with the exception of the CVD fittings and the fuel pick up mods) and can attest to them all making the engine run better, even stock....So no need to worry too much about the 7.3. Maintenance is easy and can be knocked out in a weekend once you purchase one.

My 2005 6.0 Excursion The Monster, is of course, my preference. The power of the 6.0 and the towing technology Ford put into the engine and trans can't be beat. Yes, it does have it's problems that are mainly due to owner negligence, but they are easily addressable. I found mine in the panhandle of Texas with a leaking EGR cooler and plugged up oil cooler. The truck was bone stock and I planned on keeping it that way with a few mods. Yes there are issues with the 6.0, but they like the issues with the 7.3 are easily addressable for the most part. There are also very detailed pin point tests to determine the issues. If you can find a bone stock truck, it's a great place to start. Sure, it may need an oil cooler and either and EGR cooler or EGR delete, but you're much better off with a bone stock truck that hasn't been modified but well cared for. That's just how I found mine and how I should've kept it. The truck had and made plenty of power even bone stock. The last few months before the heads blew due to shoddy work on the head gasket job, I drove it with stock programming to keep cooling system pressures down. Excurvelle can speak to the towing abilities of the 6.0 and 5R110 bone stock.

An EGR delete, oil cooler, and Ford/Navistar HPO system upgrades shouldn't cost you more than $2000 and will leave you with a VERY reliable truck that won't let you down. I bought mine October 2013 with 123K and as it sits now, has 247K. In 124Ki t only left me on the side of the road once during that time and it was because I'd replaced the nipple cup seals when I didn't need to and shouldn't have. Other than that, it's been a VERY reliable truck that doesn't back down from any load I put behind it or any driving distance I decide to take it on.

Anything 2003-2005 is nothing to be afraid of, especially the 2003 trucks everybody is scared of. The 2003 trucks have the larger 59mm turbo, a better cam that keeps more air in the cylinders as opposed to exhaust, and generally run awesome. The only real problems with the 2003-2004 trucks is wire chaffing and the questionable HPOP. Ford reman HPOPs are hit and miss, but the Dieselsite HPOP is overbuilt and over-engineered to address the shortcomings of the stock pump while providing great reliability and performance. The 2005 trucks with a 2005 engine like what I have only need to have the STC fitting done on the pump. If it's already done, you're plenty good, but you'll have to search maintenance records to see if it's been done.

In both cases, have someone who knows these trucks and the hardware associated with them go over the truck with a fine tooth comb. While I will always love my 7.3 for me my 6.0 Excursion wins in every arena hands down.

With regard to the V10, it's the power of a diesel but in gasoline form. I've driven a V10 with 4.30 gears and it has some serious huevos to it. As The Unquestioned V10 Tow-Master Tom will tell you, the V10 won't back down from a load when properly equipped. As long as it's well cared for, it will provide mile after mile of trouble free performance. The worst you have to worry about is exhaust manifold studs breaking on you. The rest like spark plugs, coils and other gas related maintenance items don't cost much and keep the truck happy.

My recommendation: If you drive the truck daily, buy a diesel. IF and ONLY IF the truck will sit and won't be driven daily, buy a V10 with 4.30 gears. V10 trucks are more forgiving while sitting than a diesel truck is. Ask me how I know...

 

 

That first one has an aftermarket sunroof - not often seen