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PATS & Fuel problem Troubleshooting help needed

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PATS & Fuel problem Troubleshooting help needed

  #1  
Old 09-03-2018, 11:28 AM
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PATS & Fuel problem Troubleshooting help needed

Originally Posted by unleashd View Post
FF to this morning. Driving to an event with friends. Coasting on the interstate, and the engine completely cuts off. I just saw my RPM needle completely reset to 0. Carefully pulled over to the shoulder. First this that came to mind was to check fuel pressure at the bowl like Mike had taught me couple nights ago. Nothing came out gushing. It did puke out a little bit of fuel. So, I new something is wrong with the fuel delivery. Then I noticed that my PATS has also possibly tripped. When I turn the key to ON, the THEFT light blinks continuously for 45 sec, then once and then 6 times. This pattern of 1 & 6 (or is it 6 & 1) repeats a few times and then it goes off. End result of all this, the starter engages fine, but the engine won't turn over. I tried the PATS reset procedure a few times, but that didn't work. Finally, called AAA and had it towed home 60 miles.

well, the EX has been sitting since Saturday afternoon. The situation remains the same. So far, I have tried some things, but to no forward progress.

1. Per Mike's advice, I wanted to try and blow some compressed air into the fuel lines. Removed the line from behind the fuel rail mounted fuel pump. There's a steady stream of diesel flowing out. I waited a while, and my 5 gal can is almost full and it still is flowing. Is this expected? Can I just blow the compressed into that line while the diesel is flowing ?
2. When I turn the key to the ON position, there is a significant 'ooomph' noise coming from somewhere below. I have a feeling that my fuel pump is toast. Carquest locally has a pump, but that's $129. Motorcraft is ~$450. There are other brands available fro $30 onwards. What's the recommendation on brand of fuel pump?
3. I removed the negative line from both batteries and let it sit all day yesterday hoping that the PATS would reset. No bueno. I still have the same 1-6 theft light blinking.
4. Yesterday there was no power to the OBD port. Found that #12 fuse (10A) was blown for OBD and cig lighter. Replaced it. Now there's power, but nothing more. Tried 2 different OBD readers. Same results. Just the power light comes on, but no further communication from the OBD reader.

The starter engages, there's 13.2 V on the batteries, but the engine doesn't turn over. Looking for ideas and help before I break down and have it towed to the dealer.
 
  #2  
Old 09-03-2018, 12:47 PM
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If it were mine I would solve the no OBD2 working issue first.

my Guess is when that works so will everything else but if it doesn’t at least you can then see why it isn’t working, Or at least why the computer thinks it isn’t working.

I’d have to go look at the wiring diagrams but I recall the OBD2 port shares a fuse with the cigar lighter port.... anyhow solve that and post up any codes and we can help run down issues.
 
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Old 09-03-2018, 01:46 PM
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Moved to the 7.3L PSD forum to get your rig back to running.

Stewart
 
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Old 09-03-2018, 02:17 PM
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When you say the engine won't turn over that implies that it won't crank. I assume it is cranking, therefore it's turning over, and just won't start.

Many code readers won't communicate with the 7.3, make sure you're using one that's known to work before assuming anything.

The fuel pump should run for several seconds when you turn the key on, don't remember how long. You should be able to hear it. I don't know if the PATS system lets the pump run or not, never checked.

There's definitely something up with the PATS system. Have you tried another key? PATS allows cranking with any key, just doesn't allow it to start.

The re-set procedure, just in case you got it wrong: Turn key on and wait for the rapid flashing to stop, around 30 seconds. Turn key off and remove till you see it blinking slowly, just a few seconds. Then try to start. If it's cured the light will go out after turning the key on and the engine will start. If it's still flashing rapidly you're stuck.
 
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Old 09-03-2018, 04:01 PM
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Stewart, thanks for moving this thread. I知 away from my computer. I値l provide some more updates later tonight when I知 back home.

Pirate, I changed the fuse to get powe to the OBD. But both the OBDII adapters that I have done seem to work. I知 going to pickup an ELM27 adapter and then check again.
 
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Old 09-03-2018, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by '88 E-350 View Post
When you say the engine won't turn over that implies that it won't crank. I assume it is cranking, therefore it's turning over, and just won't start.
The starter engages, but the engine won't start up.

Many code readers won't communicate with the 7.3, make sure you're using one that's known to work before assuming anything.
Will try another OBD reader as soon it gets here on the brown truck.

The fuel pump should run for several seconds when you turn the key on, don't remember how long. You should be able to hear it. I don't know if the PATS system lets the pump run or not, never checked.
The first time when the key is turned ON, I can hear the relay on the front passenger fender chirping for a while.

There's definitely something up with the PATS system. Have you tried another key? PATS allows cranking with any key, just doesn't allow it to start. The re-set procedure, just in case you got it wrong: Turn key on and wait for the rapid flashing to stop, around 30 seconds. Turn key off and remove till you see it blinking slowly, just a few seconds. Then try to start. If it's cured the light will go out after turning the key on and the engine will start. If it's still flashing rapidly you're stuck.
Unfortunately, I only ave the one key for this EX. Bought this truck just a few weeks back from a used car dealer in FL and drove it up to VA. I haven't had the chance yet to get additional keys. Tried the said procedure many times yesterday and this morning, but no bueno. Every time I turn the key, the light goes back to the rapid flashing sequence.
 
  #7  
Old 09-03-2018, 11:10 PM
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***Qoute**
"The starter engages, but the engine won't start up."

What does that mean?
 
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Old 09-04-2018, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by timmyboy76 View Post
***Qoute**
"The starter engages, but the engine won't start up."

What does that mean?
I may not be using the correct terms. What I知 saying is that I have good batteries and the starter is also good.

Did some more searching for the 1-6 PATS code and found various notes on a variety of Ford related forums (not all of them were 7.3 specific ). A common note seems to be a break in communication between the PATS and EEC. Will start with a new set of relays today after coming back from work. I will also go through and check/replace every fuse in the box under the steering column.
 
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Old 09-04-2018, 09:28 AM
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"Turn over" is a phrase best left for those in the pastry business, it is not explicit when folks try to use it in regards to engines as it can be (and usually is)misused or mis-interpreted on both ends. Using the correct descriptions of "No Crank" or "Cranks but does not start/fire" are explicit on both ends of a conversation.

There is nothing specific about the diesels in regards to PATS. It works (or doesn't) the same basic way on any Ford with the exception of some models include a starter interrupt. Consult the PATS Job Aid Chart for those details. I've seen that so called "PATS Reset" procedure referenced many times, I've never seen an instance where it actually worked, though.

At initial key-on, does the cluster power up normally and does the odometer display the mileage correctly or does it display dashes? If it displays dashes, that means the cluster and PCM are not powering up together and establishing a communications link and that PATS proveout will fail. Check PCM and cluster power sources.

If everything powers up normally, put the cluster into dealer test mode (google it) and pull DTCs. Look for those that are PATS-related and post them for interpretation.
 
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Old 09-04-2018, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by projectSHO89 View Post
At initial key-on, does the cluster power up normally and does the odometer display the mileage correctly or does it display dashes? If it displays dashes, that means the cluster and PCM are not powering up together and establishing a communications link and that PATS proveout will fail. Check PCM and cluster power sources.

If everything powers up normally, put the cluster into dealer test mode (google it) and pull DTCs. Look for those that are PATS-related and post them for interpretation.
The cluster powers up as usual. Odometer displays correct mileage. All the other lights cycle through correctly. I will find out how to put the cluster in dealer test mode and pull DTCs at the earliest possible time and report.

Advance thanks for all the ideas. This is a crazy week for me at work. So, please bear with me if you don't see frequent updates to the test results. Appreciate the help!!
 
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Old 09-04-2018, 10:11 AM
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I will follow this procedure, unless there's something different.

Originally Posted by HomerWinzlow View Post
Well I would hope so, since many service managers are strictly business men who never turned a wrench for a living.

But honestly, I have rarely ever needed to pull codes from the cluster. What I need to know I can find out with NGS, WDS, and pinpoint tests as well as service messages 99 percent of the time.

But just for you here are the 2003 F150 codes

Instrument Cluster Dealer Test Mode

To enter the Instrument Cluster Dealer Test Mode, depress and hold the instrument cluster SELECT/RESET button and then turn the ignition switch to the RUN position. Continue pressing the SELECT/RESET button (five seconds) until tESt is displayed in the odometer. The SELECT/RESET button must be released within three seconds of the odometer displaying tESt to begin the dealer test mode. Depress the SELECT/RESET button to advance through the following steps until dtc is displayed. Depressing the SELECT/RESET button will display any continuous DTCs stored before proceeding to the next step.



Odometer Display Description
GAGE Activates gauge sweep of all gauges, then displays present gauge values. Also carries out the checksum tests on ROM and EE.
All segments illuminated Illuminates all odometer segments.
bulb Illuminates all micro-controlled lamps and LEDs (low oil pressure/high coolant temperature, low fuel, service engine soon, brake, low range). Install a new bulb or LED as necessary.
r Returns to normal operation of all micro-controlled lamps and LEDs and displays hexadecimal value for ROM level (used when requesting assistance from the hotline).
EE Displays hexadecimal value for EE level (used when requesting assistance from the hotline).
dt Displays hexadecimal coding of final manufacturing test date (used when requesting assistance from the hotline).
dtc Displays continuous DTCs. Pressing the SELECT/RESET button will display any DTCs stored before proceeding to the next step.
enG Displays the speed in mph. Speedometer will indicate present speed within tolerances. Display will show 0 if input is not received, if input received is invalid for one second or more, or if speed is 0.
m Displays the speed data (mph) received from the PCM via the SCP network. Displays the metric speed in kph. Speedometer will indicate present speed within tolerances. Display will show 0 if input is not received, if input received is invalid for one second or more, or if speed is 0.
tAc Displays the tachometer data received from the PCM via the SCP network. Tachometer will indicate present speed within tolerances. Display will show 0 if input is not received, if input received is invalid for one second or more, or if engine rpm is 0.
FUEL Displays the actual A/D fuel level. The fuel gauge will display a filtered fuel level value. This filter will keep the pointer from moving suddenly or erratically. If the value displayed is between 0 and 20, the circuit is shorted. Go To Pinpoint Test B.
255=open send +/-0
232=Full stop +/-10
215=Full mark +/-10
178=3/4 mark +/-8
138=1/2 mark +/-7
93=1/4 mark +/-5
41=E mark +/-4
54="LOW FUEL" (0-59)
0-18=short (0-20 max.)

OIL Displays the code (0-255) for the oil pressure switch input to the instrument cluster. Displays the oil pressure reading input to the instrument cluster. Oil pressure gauge will indicate present oil pressure. Normal oil pressure (greater than 6 psi) will display a value between 000 and 176. A low oil pressure (less than 6 psi) or an inoperative engine oil pressure switch will display a value greater than 176.
dEGC Display of engine temperature in Degrees C input from cylinder head temperature sensor. If the value displayed is -40C, the SCP message for engine temperature has not been received for more than 5 seconds. Go To Pinpoint Test E.
49 C="C" mark
60 C=Normal band start
120 C=Normal band end
119 C=Temperature warning indicator ON
"-40" C=No SCP Message for 5 sec

br Displays the brake fluid level input to the instrument cluster.
bAtt Displays the code (0-255) battery voltage input to the instrument cluster. Battery voltage gauge will indicate present battery voltage.
93-102=6.9-9.1 volts (low voltage)
115-124=8.5-10.7 volts (norm band start)
215-225=15.8-18 volts (norm band end)
230-241=16.9-19.1 volts (high voltage)

rhEo Displays the present hexadecimal value for the instrument cluster backlighting pulse width modulated (PWM) input to the instrument cluster (used when requesting assistance from the hotline).
rhi
rhS
rho PWM input duty cycle.
SCP hexadecimal dimming step (used when requesting assistance from the hotline).
Output driver counts in hexadecimal format (used when requesting assistance from the hotline).
Cr Displays the present RUN/START sense input. Display will show -L with the ignition switch in the START position and -h with the ignition switch in the RUN position.
ALtFa Displays 8-bit hexadecimal value for alternate fuel level. Display will show a value between OO and FF if the message is received.
PA-PE7 Not used.
GAGE Repeats test display cycle.

a Refer to 413-01B (F250 only).

Turn the ignition switch to the OFF position or press and hold the SELECT/RESET button for three or more seconds and release to exit Instrument Cluster Dealer Test Mode. If no DTCs related to the concern are retrieved, proceed to the Symptom Chart to continue diagnostics.



Instrument Cluster Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) Index DTC Description Source Action
B1202 Fuel Sender Open Instrument Cluster Go To Pinpoint Test B.
B1204 Fuel Sender Short to Ground Instrument Cluster Go To Pinpoint Test B.
B1342 ECU is Defective Instrument Cluster CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test. If DTC B1342, INSTALL a new instrument cluster; REFER to Instrument Cluster in this section. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.
B2143 Odometer NVM Memory Failure Instrument Cluster INSTALL a new instrument cluster; REFER to Instrument Cluster in this section. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.
C1284 Oil Pressure Switch Failure Instrument Cluster Go To Pinpoint Test D.
P1197 SELECT/RESET Switch Circuit Failure Instrument Cluster INSTALL a new instrument cluster; REFER to Instrument Cluster in this section. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.
U1027 SCP (J1850) Invalid or Missing Data for Engine RPM PCM REFER to Powertrain Control/Emissions Diagnosis (PC/ED) manual.
U1041 SCP (J1850) Invalid or Missing Data for Vehicle Speed PCM REFER to Powertrain Control/Emissions Diagnosis (PC/ED) manual.
U1073 SCP (J1850) Invalid or Missing Data for Engine Coolant PCM REFER to Powertrain Control/Emissions Diagnosis (PC/ED) manual.
U1123 SCP (J1850) Invalid or Missing Data for Odometer PCM REFER to Powertrain Control/Emissions Diagnosis (PC/ED) manual.
U1131 SCP (J1850) Invalid or Missing Data for Fuel System AFCM REFER to Powertrain Control/Emissions Diagnosis (PC/ED) manual.
U1132 SCP (J1850) Invalid or Missing Data for Odometer PCM REFER to Powertrain Control/Emissions Diagnosis (PC/ED) manual.
​​​​​​​
 
  #12  
Old 09-04-2018, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by projectSHO89 View Post
"Turn over" is a phrase best left for those in the pastry business, it is not explicit when folks try to use it in regards to engines as it can be (and usually is)misused or mis-interpreted on both ends. Using the correct descriptions of "No Crank" or "Cranks but does not start/fire" are explicit on both ends of a conversation.
Prakash, this is really important bud, you need to clear this up. Please, does your starter spin when you turn the key? Does the starter spin and does the engine crank when you engage the starter?

Stewart
 
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Old 09-04-2018, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Stewart_H View Post
Prakash, this is really important bud, you need to clear this up. Please, does your starter spin when you turn the key? Does the starter spin and does the engine crank when you engage the starter?

Stewart
Yes. and Yes, Stewart. The starter spins, engages and tries to start the engine. But the engines does not start up. So, it cranks but does not start up. As I had said, I have good battery voltage. When I get home tonight, I will make a video of what it does and post up for sure.
 
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Old 09-04-2018, 05:04 PM
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Here are the videos as promised.


 
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Old 09-04-2018, 06:56 PM
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Did you get your code reader yet?

No RPM bounce makes me wonder about the CPS, but I thought that was only indicative of the earlier MY trucks.

Do you have a spare CPS you can try to rule it out?

Stewart
 

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