Pulled trigger on PHP Hydra
Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 206
Likes: 5
My next project is front hubs old ones are not in good shape 1 is cracked inside and other is not working well stiff and sticky. Then 4” turbo back exhaust will be next if nothing else rears it’s ugly head.
shawn
shawn
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 27,344
Likes: 5,941
From: Lake Hartwell, GA
My truck has the ZF6 manual transmission.
but I must say I have been very conservative with it even in stock form it has only been with me about 6 months an I’m still a little bit concerned about parts that may be weak mainly in running gear u joints and such. Slowly I’m getting it into shape a little at a time.
Before long I’ll be using it like a truck.
shawn
but I must say I have been very conservative with it even in stock form it has only been with me about 6 months an I’m still a little bit concerned about parts that may be weak mainly in running gear u joints and such. Slowly I’m getting it into shape a little at a time.
Before long I’ll be using it like a truck.
shawn
Read the description of the video before moving forward with the mod if you choose to do so.
More Turbo
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 596
Likes: 11
Nothing wrong with being cautious, so you do what you think is right for you and your truck.
Let me reassure you a bit and maybe inspire a bit of confidence to ease your concerns though so you can look more at the road instead of the gauges.
Your PMR rods are nothing to be concerned about unless you are making big HP numbers. By big, I mean far higher than what you are and take a lot more money, time and effort to attain than a few bolt on modifications and a Hydra with PHP tunes.
The truck can run all day long at 1200 degrees, it is when you start creeping above that you should be looking at things to change in order to keep the truck healthy. You can go above 1200 degrees for short periods of time, say if you were climbing a grade and were at 1300 for 45 seconds or so. The problem with going above 1200 is that the engine becomes heat soaked and there is much more time involved to cool it off properly after that happens.
I agree that 1200 is a good goal to stay under, and that is what my personal limit is as well.
Your truck should not and most likely will not hit 1200+ degrees unloaded. If it does, you may have some boost or exhaust leaks which add heat to the system very quickly.
When towing, that is when you need to watch the EGT gauge to see how your truck reacts to different tunes and terrain. Learn what it likes and what it does not like. Change your driving and tuning style appropriately until you find a happy place for both the truck and yourself. This may be a heavy tow tune which is nothing more than a stock tune for the engine with slightly different shift points for automatic transmission trucks. The ideal use of a Hydra is to find and use a tune that meets your goals and expectations for towing and unloaded and drive the truck. Once you find those tunes that meet your expectations, then drive the truck and use the gauges as tools, not the focus point.
You may have to get a few different tunes from a few different places. Places like 1023 Tuning, SDK and Gear Head are great to start with. For 1023 you can go to RiffRaff and buy a single tune for fairly cheap. Run it, see what you think and talk to the tuner about changes that you feel can be, or should be made. Some tunes do not work well with a truck, where on another truck the exact same tune makes it run like a beast.
Be safe, and enjoy the ability to make changes to your truck regarding hardware and software when needed.
Let me reassure you a bit and maybe inspire a bit of confidence to ease your concerns though so you can look more at the road instead of the gauges.
Your PMR rods are nothing to be concerned about unless you are making big HP numbers. By big, I mean far higher than what you are and take a lot more money, time and effort to attain than a few bolt on modifications and a Hydra with PHP tunes.
The truck can run all day long at 1200 degrees, it is when you start creeping above that you should be looking at things to change in order to keep the truck healthy. You can go above 1200 degrees for short periods of time, say if you were climbing a grade and were at 1300 for 45 seconds or so. The problem with going above 1200 is that the engine becomes heat soaked and there is much more time involved to cool it off properly after that happens.
I agree that 1200 is a good goal to stay under, and that is what my personal limit is as well.
Your truck should not and most likely will not hit 1200+ degrees unloaded. If it does, you may have some boost or exhaust leaks which add heat to the system very quickly.
When towing, that is when you need to watch the EGT gauge to see how your truck reacts to different tunes and terrain. Learn what it likes and what it does not like. Change your driving and tuning style appropriately until you find a happy place for both the truck and yourself. This may be a heavy tow tune which is nothing more than a stock tune for the engine with slightly different shift points for automatic transmission trucks. The ideal use of a Hydra is to find and use a tune that meets your goals and expectations for towing and unloaded and drive the truck. Once you find those tunes that meet your expectations, then drive the truck and use the gauges as tools, not the focus point.
You may have to get a few different tunes from a few different places. Places like 1023 Tuning, SDK and Gear Head are great to start with. For 1023 you can go to RiffRaff and buy a single tune for fairly cheap. Run it, see what you think and talk to the tuner about changes that you feel can be, or should be made. Some tunes do not work well with a truck, where on another truck the exact same tune makes it run like a beast.
Be safe, and enjoy the ability to make changes to your truck regarding hardware and software when needed.
Threads/Posts like this are swaying me to buy a PHP. Where did you buy yours?
Last edited by ZachinCO; Sep 6, 2018 at 09:44 AM. Reason: Additional thought
Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 206
Likes: 5
Sous was looking at your mod a while back but when I got my truck it had the default to defrost mode going on so I got a new vacuum pump hooked it in to all the plumbing and now had alternating defrost A/C going on. I bypassed the 4x4 hubs and have just been using manual hubs I don’t think the auto hubs will ever be re hooked I’m a old school type and don’t mind getting out and turning hubs in anyway.
I have used 2 Low many times with trailers and just backing up in tight areas. So I plugged all hub lines.
Shawn
I have used 2 Low many times with trailers and just backing up in tight areas. So I plugged all hub lines.
Shawn
Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 206
Likes: 5
Good info on the EGT's! I was watching mine this last weekend hauling a load of hay, close to 20k with a full load. Only came close to 1200 a few times and I don't really have any steep grades.
Threads/Posts like this are swaying me to buy a PHP. Where did you buy yours?
Threads/Posts like this are swaying me to buy a PHP. Where did you buy yours?
Shawn
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 27,344
Likes: 5,941
From: Lake Hartwell, GA
Good info on the EGT's! I was watching mine this last weekend hauling a load of hay, close to 20k with a full load. Only came close to 1200 a few times and I don't really have any steep grades.
Threads/Posts like this are swaying me to buy a PHP. Where did you buy yours?
Threads/Posts like this are swaying me to buy a PHP. Where did you buy yours?
I am looking forward to what the SXE turbo will do with the 1023 tunes I have.
Sous was looking at your mod a while back but when I got my truck it had the default to defrost mode going on so I got a new vacuum pump hooked it in to all the plumbing and now had alternating defrost A/C going on. I bypassed the 4x4 hubs and have just been using manual hubs I don’t think the auto hubs will ever be re hooked I’m a old school type and don’t mind getting out and turning hubs in anyway.
I have used 2 Low many times with trailers and just backing up in tight areas. So I plugged all hub lines.
Shawn
I have used 2 Low many times with trailers and just backing up in tight areas. So I plugged all hub lines.
Shawn
I have found in my truck that egt’s climb when I’m in rolling hills and flats going 1500-1800 rpm in OD so I just drop a gear and run it a little faster rpm and they drop quickly. There are times I’m sure before the gauges that I was running it hot thinking I was saving fuel.
Shawn
Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 206
Likes: 5
I am new to diesel pickups except an 1988 6.9 my grandfather had on the farm it was an automatic it didn’t top the hills fast but it always got to the top. Then I drove tri axle coal bucket 1 day a week for 2 years just to get the experience totally different experience most of them I only used clutch to take off and stop other than that I used rpm to slide in and out to shift. The ZF6 doesn’t like that.
shawn
shawn
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 27,344
Likes: 5,941
From: Lake Hartwell, GA
Some people do "float" the gears and shift without the clutch in the ZF6. I don't have the talent to do that, so I will continue to use the clutch.
When I first bought the truck, the clutch and flywheel had hot spots on them that would grab and let loose. I misdiagnosed the problem as axle wrap, but was educated about clutch chatter and hot spots soon after.
Looking back, I can see now that the PO was not 100% honest with me, but the truck has been great and I got it for a good price.
I had to learn that I should not be pushing on the throttle until the clutch was all the way out when taking off from a start. I thought it was like a car, it is not. That along with a few other techniques I had to learn, but all is well now. All of the big diesel trucks I drove in the military were automatics, so that did not apply to this truck.
When I first bought the truck, the clutch and flywheel had hot spots on them that would grab and let loose. I misdiagnosed the problem as axle wrap, but was educated about clutch chatter and hot spots soon after.
Looking back, I can see now that the PO was not 100% honest with me, but the truck has been great and I got it for a good price.
I had to learn that I should not be pushing on the throttle until the clutch was all the way out when taking off from a start. I thought it was like a car, it is not. That along with a few other techniques I had to learn, but all is well now. All of the big diesel trucks I drove in the military were automatics, so that did not apply to this truck.
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Lead Driver
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I am new to diesel pickups except an 1988 6.9 my grandfather had on the farm it was an automatic it didn’t top the hills fast but it always got to the top. Then I drove tri axle coal bucket 1 day a week for 2 years just to get the experience totally different experience most of them I only used clutch to take off and stop other than that I used rpm to slide in and out to shift. The ZF6 doesn’t like that.
shawn
shawn
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 27,344
Likes: 5,941
From: Lake Hartwell, GA
The only floating I do anymore is on the pond or on the lake...
Laughing Gas
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 833
Likes: 4
Clutch-less shifting feels okay and seems like it's not hurting anything... I used to do this often as I am lazy. However, the more I read on it I stopped... It seems holding pressure against your gears until they "float" without a grind is more than likely destroying your sychros. I decided to just push the pedal in. You can shift like this in any vehicle if you match the revs right but on a micro-scale, you need to shift at the absolute perfect nano-second timing to not cause wear and tear on synchros. Unless it's racecar and you rebuilt it often regardless, I would avoid.
Sous you are right, I won't let anyone drive my truck who hasn't driven a big torquey diesel with a manual trans before. It's nothing like a little passenger car. I may give it a little bit of throttle on an incline with load, but 99% of the time, I let the (powerful-as-****) idle get the truck going from 0 until the clutch is fully engaged
Sous you are right, I won't let anyone drive my truck who hasn't driven a big torquey diesel with a manual trans before. It's nothing like a little passenger car. I may give it a little bit of throttle on an incline with load, but 99% of the time, I let the (powerful-as-****) idle get the truck going from 0 until the clutch is fully engaged
Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 206
Likes: 5
Fueled up for the first time to hand calculate mpg and I must say that I can’t call it the lie O meter anymore it is within .1 of hand calculation.
One thing I did notice is that when traveling that my truck tops hills with less drop in average a hill that used to drop average.2-.3 now only drops it .1 using cruise control.
This is all in 80 DD later today I’m hooking into the 5th wheel for a 25 mile trip I plan to run 65 hp tow trailer weight is around 7600 but will have a bed full of wood so I’ll be consecutive and watch egt.
This will be a good test the last hill I climb is a steep one with a stop sign about a 1/4 mile to get rolling before incline.
I have ZF6 and usually top the hill in 4th gear with a short drop into 3rd at a curve on the steepest part the drop to 3rd is usually 200-300 yards then back up to 4th.
Maybe I can hang it in 4th all the way now.
Shawn
One thing I did notice is that when traveling that my truck tops hills with less drop in average a hill that used to drop average.2-.3 now only drops it .1 using cruise control.
This is all in 80 DD later today I’m hooking into the 5th wheel for a 25 mile trip I plan to run 65 hp tow trailer weight is around 7600 but will have a bed full of wood so I’ll be consecutive and watch egt.
This will be a good test the last hill I climb is a steep one with a stop sign about a 1/4 mile to get rolling before incline.
I have ZF6 and usually top the hill in 4th gear with a short drop into 3rd at a curve on the steepest part the drop to 3rd is usually 200-300 yards then back up to 4th.
Maybe I can hang it in 4th all the way now.
Shawn
Laughing Gas
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,072
Likes: 91
From: DFW, Texas
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 27,344
Likes: 5,941
From: Lake Hartwell, GA
Fueled up for the first time to hand calculate mpg and I must say that I can’t call it the lie O meter anymore it is within .1 of hand calculation.
One thing I did notice is that when traveling that my truck tops hills with less drop in average a hill that used to drop average.2-.3 now only drops it .1 using cruise control.
This is all in 80 DD later today I’m hooking into the 5th wheel for a 25 mile trip I plan to run 65 hp tow trailer weight is around 7600 but will have a bed full of wood so I’ll be consecutive and watch egt.
This will be a good test the last hill I climb is a steep one with a stop sign about a 1/4 mile to get rolling before incline.
I have ZF6 and usually top the hill in 4th gear with a short drop into 3rd at a curve on the steepest part the drop to 3rd is usually 200-300 yards then back up to 4th.
Maybe I can hang it in 4th all the way now.
Shawn
One thing I did notice is that when traveling that my truck tops hills with less drop in average a hill that used to drop average.2-.3 now only drops it .1 using cruise control.
This is all in 80 DD later today I’m hooking into the 5th wheel for a 25 mile trip I plan to run 65 hp tow trailer weight is around 7600 but will have a bed full of wood so I’ll be consecutive and watch egt.
This will be a good test the last hill I climb is a steep one with a stop sign about a 1/4 mile to get rolling before incline.
I have ZF6 and usually top the hill in 4th gear with a short drop into 3rd at a curve on the steepest part the drop to 3rd is usually 200-300 yards then back up to 4th.
Maybe I can hang it in 4th all the way now.
Shawn
Let us know what you thought once you get a moment and stop smiling so much.