What I believe RE: Token
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Los Angeles safe and warm
Big Orn,
It's "belief systems" that I shun. I have some beliefs but only where there are things I cannot know. I believe space goes on and on to infinity although I cannot directly experience this so it is impossible to "know" with certainty. I believe mankind is his only salvation which is a form of "hope" or "faith" but not knowledge.
Sometimes it is easier to describe what something is not than it is to describe what it is. I do not believe we live in the construct of another being. I believe it is possible that we are all part of a singular organism but cannot experience this directly because of it's vastness; sort of like your toe doesn't know what your fingers are doing.
I supect that some of the differences I have with carpe are based on semantics. I think he believes in some limited control.
I accept that most of what goes on is well beyond our control and even the illusion of control will only sporadically produce the intended results. I am not urged to inaction by this fact. Our actions have far-reaching consequences that we can only partially comprehend or predict. How one deals with the unforseen is a measure of adaptability, one of our best attributes.
Just because I cannot control the river doesn't make running the rapids any less fun.
It's "belief systems" that I shun. I have some beliefs but only where there are things I cannot know. I believe space goes on and on to infinity although I cannot directly experience this so it is impossible to "know" with certainty. I believe mankind is his only salvation which is a form of "hope" or "faith" but not knowledge.
Sometimes it is easier to describe what something is not than it is to describe what it is. I do not believe we live in the construct of another being. I believe it is possible that we are all part of a singular organism but cannot experience this directly because of it's vastness; sort of like your toe doesn't know what your fingers are doing.
I supect that some of the differences I have with carpe are based on semantics. I think he believes in some limited control.
I accept that most of what goes on is well beyond our control and even the illusion of control will only sporadically produce the intended results. I am not urged to inaction by this fact. Our actions have far-reaching consequences that we can only partially comprehend or predict. How one deals with the unforseen is a measure of adaptability, one of our best attributes.
Just because I cannot control the river doesn't make running the rapids any less fun.
Elder User
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 967
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From: Southern NJ
Pizza for president!!!! And thanks Big Orn, that's exactly how I track my actions, thoughts, words. Would I want my nieces or nephews or friend's children (don't have any myself yet,,,,yet) to follow my example? What we do is a far greater teaching tool than what we say. Now I'm off for my own pizza 
Posting Guru
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Vancouver Wash USA
Originally posted by carpe_diem
What if you are wrong. What if Jesus is not coming back? Have you considered that possibility?
God of course can do anything God wants. He can indeed send Jesus for the 3rd or any number of times. But, that's very doubtful. What's certain is that this world will keep sliding into abyss while token Christians neglect their responsibilities, waiting and waiting, preaching and preaching. Oblivion is the only certainty in that eventuality. The people who are most responsible for fixing what's wrong and making this world right are sleep-walking through life, anesthesizing their existence with comfortable but meaningless formulas.
That's the problem I have with modern Christianity. It lost its roots, it is of no use to me whatsoever.
What if you are wrong. What if Jesus is not coming back? Have you considered that possibility?
God of course can do anything God wants. He can indeed send Jesus for the 3rd or any number of times. But, that's very doubtful. What's certain is that this world will keep sliding into abyss while token Christians neglect their responsibilities, waiting and waiting, preaching and preaching. Oblivion is the only certainty in that eventuality. The people who are most responsible for fixing what's wrong and making this world right are sleep-walking through life, anesthesizing their existence with comfortable but meaningless formulas.
That's the problem I have with modern Christianity. It lost its roots, it is of no use to me whatsoever.
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,314
Likes: 35
It's "belief systems" that I shun. I have some beliefs but only where there are things I cannot know. I believe space goes on and on to infinity although I cannot directly experience this so it is impossible to "know" with certainty. I believe mankind is his only salvation which is a form of "hope" or "faith" but not knowledge.
Nobody has complete knowledge or truth. We all function based on incomplete knowledge and incomplete understanding --- about the nature of everything. Some are less ignorant than others. But I find it doubtful that mankind will ever stop being ignorant.
The main point here is that it is necessary to recognize the above before making any progress. If a person thinks he knows everything, why make an effort and study more? Really, the more ignorant you think you are, the more incentive you have to learn. It is sorely obvious to me I am ignorant - and the more I learn, the more ignorant I become in the context of massive sea of knowledge I discover. I never forget that fact, which is exactly why I advance. Those who are not aware of their ignorance, don't advance.
A paradox? Maybe. I hate being static. It is like getting stuck in 9th grade for the rest of your life. to lead a meaningful life, a person must *constantly* revise his beliefs and graduate from one thing to another to yet another. Constantly find something new and abandon or revise (or improve) something old. Life is a growing experience which must never end.
Since I ascribe to no system of beliefs how can that be dogmatic?
Not subscribing to a belief system, is a belief system in and of itself. I think believing in nothing is as much of a religion as believing in God.
Two words for you carpe: Bhagavad-Gita
You know, I studied Eastern thought extensively in my quest for truth and read B-Gita years ago. Including a lot of paranormal stuff, parapsychology, telepathy, the UFO phenomenon, and more -- I think I've benefited from the experience but haven't actually figured out if the above are real. Maybe so, and quite possibly, not. More importantly, I could not find a connection between these theories and my life. Eventually I put them into "interesting but irrelevant" bin.
I supect that some of the differences I have with carpe are based on semantics. I think he believes in some limited control.
I accept that most of what goes on is well beyond our control and even the illusion of control will only sporadically produce the intended results. I am not urged to inaction by this fact. Our actions have far-reaching consequences that we can only partially comprehend or predict. How one deals with the unforseen is a measure of adaptability, one of our best attributes.
Of course there is *some* control. To deny that, would be to deny our humanity. To be human means to practice some control over your life and the world. If you say - well, I have no control over anything, so why even worry? that's wrong. The results are sometimes unpredictable. But the attempt is valid. I think what this means is that *some* control is as god as *all* control. Took me a long time to realize exactly what this means.
Nobody has complete knowledge or truth. We all function based on incomplete knowledge and incomplete understanding --- about the nature of everything. Some are less ignorant than others. But I find it doubtful that mankind will ever stop being ignorant.
The main point here is that it is necessary to recognize the above before making any progress. If a person thinks he knows everything, why make an effort and study more? Really, the more ignorant you think you are, the more incentive you have to learn. It is sorely obvious to me I am ignorant - and the more I learn, the more ignorant I become in the context of massive sea of knowledge I discover. I never forget that fact, which is exactly why I advance. Those who are not aware of their ignorance, don't advance.
A paradox? Maybe. I hate being static. It is like getting stuck in 9th grade for the rest of your life. to lead a meaningful life, a person must *constantly* revise his beliefs and graduate from one thing to another to yet another. Constantly find something new and abandon or revise (or improve) something old. Life is a growing experience which must never end.
Since I ascribe to no system of beliefs how can that be dogmatic?
Not subscribing to a belief system, is a belief system in and of itself. I think believing in nothing is as much of a religion as believing in God.
Two words for you carpe: Bhagavad-Gita
You know, I studied Eastern thought extensively in my quest for truth and read B-Gita years ago. Including a lot of paranormal stuff, parapsychology, telepathy, the UFO phenomenon, and more -- I think I've benefited from the experience but haven't actually figured out if the above are real. Maybe so, and quite possibly, not. More importantly, I could not find a connection between these theories and my life. Eventually I put them into "interesting but irrelevant" bin.
I supect that some of the differences I have with carpe are based on semantics. I think he believes in some limited control.
I accept that most of what goes on is well beyond our control and even the illusion of control will only sporadically produce the intended results. I am not urged to inaction by this fact. Our actions have far-reaching consequences that we can only partially comprehend or predict. How one deals with the unforseen is a measure of adaptability, one of our best attributes.
Of course there is *some* control. To deny that, would be to deny our humanity. To be human means to practice some control over your life and the world. If you say - well, I have no control over anything, so why even worry? that's wrong. The results are sometimes unpredictable. But the attempt is valid. I think what this means is that *some* control is as god as *all* control. Took me a long time to realize exactly what this means.
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