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A lot of FTE'rs still prefer the drop in turbo, but when you really look at the difference in price vs. the difference in performance the choice is easy.
Below is a link to my decision and main points of how I arrived there.
Preview of the price differences based on my own research.
I just want to mention that the Injectors you listed for the KC38R are not required. If you add the oem injectors in your cost be comes 3340.00 as a comparison. The S&B is an option that isn't required. You could use your ais intake.
As for performance they are very similar.
I'm not sure what the inspection requirements are in OH (if there even are any). If you do have them make sure anything you do is kosher with the rules before you start spending money. I would love a T4 setup but I would never be able to pass the smog inspection here in my county. Just food for thought.
Originally Posted by Tugly
Stock intercooler is fine. Some have tried to upgrade this, but the results didn't warrant the hassle and expense.
I concur on that. I got a sweet deal on a 6.0 IC that sat in my garage for years. When my radiator needed replacing is when I dropped it in. I don't tow much so I haven't really experienced a noticeable benefit other than something to add to my signature . Definitely NOT worth the labor to do it as a stand-alone project IMO.
I just want to mention that the Injectors you listed for the KC38R are not required. If you add the oem injectors in your cost be comes 3340.00 as a comparison. The S&B is an option that isn't required. You could use your ais intake.
As for performance they are very similar.
Understood, but in my opinion I would not go with a drop in turbo unless I upgraded the injectors. It would be pointless to run the KC38R366 (not sure what it is called now) with stock injectors in my opinion. Especially with a ZF6 truck.
I am not very keen on the S&B and how it sits in the engine bay. I will keep the AIS or go with a 6637 for the T4/SXE if I feel the need.
The SXE runs like a champ on the stock injectors, that is why I left the stock injectors at the top of the list with the SXE build while maintaining as much of a stock configuration as possible for engine internals. If after the SXE is installed and I still really want to get new single shot injectors, I will probably go with 160/0, but that is a long shot and not what my goal for the truck is.
Again, this is just my decision after much thought and more research. Others could be and probably will arriving to different decisions.
Understood, but in my opinion I would not go with a drop in turbo unless I upgraded the injectors. It would be pointless to run the KC38R366 (not sure what it is called now) with stock injectors in my opinion. Especially with a ZF6 truck.
I am not very keen on the S&B and how it sits in the engine bay. I will keep the AIS or go with a 6637 for the T4/SXE if I feel the need.
The SXE runs like a champ on the stock injectors, that is why I left the stock injectors at the top of the list with the SXE build while maintaining as much of a stock configuration as possible for engine internals. If after the SXE is installed and I still really want to get new single shot injectors, I will probably go with 160/0, but that is a long shot and not what my goal for the truck is.
Again, this is just my decision after much thought and more research. Others could be and probably will arriving to different decisions.
Agreed. I know of two trucks locally running stock injectors along with the KC38R-366. They have reported a 300* drop in their egt's towing heavy. I know your friends with Corey @ cncfab he has told me the same. I'm not trying to change your mind by any means. Just want to give a perspective to others from a KC owner.
Agreed. I know of two trucks locally running stock injectors along with the KC38R-366. They have reported a 300* drop in their egt's towing heavy. I know your friends with Corey @ cncfab he has told me the same. I'm not trying to change your mind by any means. Just want to give a perspective to others from a KC owner.
Still waiting to see a video towing a high profile heavey trailer up a hill at low RPM with the KC38-366 and the EGT gauge.
Very nice results from a local customer while towing a 14k 5'er in the Hot Street tune. Previously had a Garrett 38R and EGT's we're 300* hotter across the board at the same throttle/driving conditions. He can now hit 45lbs boost vs vs 30 in the race tune.
Climbing a steady grade temps never got much over 1000*KC38R, Swamps 238/100's w/ Swamps tuning. Also installed a custom built Haisley Machine dual disk clutch.
Agreed. I know of two trucks locally running stock injectors along with the KC38R-366. They have reported a 300* drop in their egt's towing heavy. I know your friends with Corey @ cncfab he has told me the same. I'm not trying to change your mind by any means. Just want to give a perspective to others from a KC owner.
I appreciate your advice and your experience. I am not someone that makes these decisions lightly. As a matter of fact it took me about 9 months to figure out what I wanted to do. After speaking to, texting with, and emailing both KC and SXE owners and dealers I made my decision.
I am glad your KC is performing to your expectations and beyond though.
OP, I apologize for getting your thread a bit off track.
Originally Posted by akcooper9
Still waiting to see a video towing a high profile heavey trailer up a hill at low RPM with the KC38-366 and the EGT gauge.
I am not very keen on the S&B and how it sits in the engine bay.
I'm not either.
It's a behemoth and is all plastic. I've got the Gen 2 kit with their first intake tube so I cannot remove my power steering reservoir cap unless I disconnect the intake tube and move it out of the way . I haven't installed the newer design intake tube (to their credit S&B sent it to me for free and I paid the shipping) to see if that helps. I loved my 6637 but it got dusty pretty quick off-roading and was not going to measure up to the new sticks, especially since I was originally dead set on going down the 38R path.
If I had it to do over again I would be doing some research on the aFe and Airaid intakes.
Originally Posted by Sous
If after the SXE is installed and I still really want to get new single shot injectors, I will probably go with 160/0...Others could be and probably will arriving to different decisions.
You're missing the '8’. Let me fix that for you...160/80.
Still waiting to see a video towing a high profile heavey trailer up a hill at low RPM with the KC38-366 and the EGT gauge.
I've been there done that. It was a HOT mess.
It's not just the hardware under the hood, it also the tuning. With my 38R, I can dial up the EGTs or dial 'em down by just pushing a button on the Hydra.
Originally Posted by brian42
...You're missing the '8’. Let me fix that for you...160/80.
I was gunna say... all that work to upgrade, then sticking with the limiting stock nozzles is akin to buying a Superduty with a 5000 lb max tow hitch (which was stock). Ya missed a step.
I was gunna say... all that work to upgrade, then sticking with the limiting stock nozzles is akin to buying a Superduty with a 5000 lb max tow hitch (which was stock). Ya missed a step.
Perhaps, but not if the goal is to keep engine internals as stock as possible for longevity purposes/reliability purposes and to feed the stock engine as much air as it can process and push out the exhaust. Based on my research, the 364.5SXE is matched very well against the stock 7.3 and AD injectors. Even then, if 160/X injectors are installed, or even hybrids the 364.5SXE will do even better in that environment.
Although, my goal is not speed or how fast can I climb a grade. My goal is longevity, reliability and comfort while towing the 5th wheel. If I have to downshift into 4th from 5th from time to time, that is fine. If I can climb most hills/grades at 2000 RPM in 5th gear, well that is optimal. This is why I am getting the MPG's that I am getting, because I drive the truck where it is efficient, not where it is fast.
Everyone has different goals and intentions for their vehicles. My goal would be to keep the stock AD injectors for another 250K miles and refresh them at that point with new Alliant AD injectors. All while running the T4/SXE kit and towing the trailer cross country with ease. If 160/X injectors are required, I will make a decision at that point. Availability of said injector is a concern, but not a priority if you understand what I am saying.
It's not just the hardware under the hood, it also the tuning. With my 38R, I can dial up the EGTs or dial 'em down by just pushing a button on the Hydra.
I was gunna say... all that work to upgrade, then sticking with the limiting stock nozzles is akin to buying a Superduty with a 5000 lb max tow hitch (which was stock). Ya missed a step.
No Bend Zone
This maybe very true,I don't know what the factory hitch is rated . I will say I was a fabricator and certified welder for over 30 years and don't know how they rate hitches. I have made many over the years and changed some to fit different vehicals. The factory hitch on my truck looks as strong as any after market that I have seen. My factory hitch has pulled much more than 5000 lbs,many times over double that amount without any issues. There are hitches that are a different catigory that have larger cross tube and larger receiver tubes,some have 2 receiver tubes that I have seen. These are a different category hitch and are stronger.most of these kind of hitches are used when a extended ball is used. Some extend the ball out 48" to clear a truck camper or such. This puts a lot more leverage on the receiver.
The GTP38 SXE hybrid is a pretty good option to up air flow while keeping cost down with stock injectors. I built a GTP38 Van with a 70mm SXE turbine from KC and an ETT billet wheel for about $400 and it flat out rips. About to build another with a 68mm SXE turbine. The S300SXE 60/68 flows about 71lb, 11lb/min more compared to the stock GTP38 of 60lb. Might not pick up 11lb/min modifying the GTP38 but I bet it is close.
Sous, my good friend. Maybe I should have prefaced who I was targeting my suggestion at. The OP titled the thread "Tugging Power?" and asked about more ponies for towing.
My hitch was rated 5000 (weight carrying), and it bent to death when a ricer committed suicide on it. A fellow member offered a free replacement, because he upgraded his hitch - he lives about two-hours drive from me. When I showed up, I saw his 5000 pound hitch receiver was bent too. That's when I cracked my knuckles and said "Alright. Fine. I'll do this myself." I never tow under 5000 pounds.
A Hitch in Capacity
Cut and paste alert!! Whoop-whoop!
Class I
Class I hitches are weight carrying (WC) hitches rated up to 2000 lbs. gross trailer weight (GTW) with a maximum trailer tongue weight (TW) of 200 lbs.
A Class I hitch usually has a 1-1/4" square receiver opening.
A higher class drawbar does not increase the towing capacity of the hitch.
Class I hitches usually attach to the bumper, truck pan or vehicle frame.
Class II
Class II hitches are weight carrying (WC) hitches rated up to 3500 lbs. gross trailer weight (GTW) with a maximum trailer tongue weight (TW) of 300 lbs.
A Class II hitch usually has a 1-1/4" square receiver opening.
A higher class drawbar does not increase the towing capacity of the hitch.
Class II hitches usually attach to the bumper or vehicle frame.
Class III
Class III hitches are weight carrying (WC) and also are weight distributing (WD) depending on the vehicle and hitch specifications.
Not all Class III hitches are rated to be both. See the specific hitch for that information.
Class III hitches used as weight carrying are rated up to 6000 lbs. gross trailer weight (GTW) with a maximum trailer tongue weight (TW) of 600 lbs.
Class III hitches used for weight distributing are rated up to 10,000 lbs. gross trailer weight (GTW) with a maximum trailer tongue weight (TW) of 1000 lbs.
A Class III hitch usually has a 2" square receiver opening.
A higher class drawbar does not increase the towing capacity of the hitch. To use this class of hitch for weight distribution requires a weight distribution system.
Class III hitches attach to the vehicle frame only.
Class IV
Class IV hitches are weight carrying (WC) and weight distributing (WD) hitches depending on the vehicle and hitch specifications.
Not all Class IV hitches are rated to be both. See the specific hitch for that information.
Class IV hitches used as weight carrying are rated up to 10,000 lbs. gross trailer weight (GTW) with a maximum trailer tongue weight (TW) of 1000 lbs.
Class IV hitches used for weight distributing are rated up to 14,000 lbs. gross trailer weight (GTW) with a maximum trailer tongue weight (TW) of 1400 lbs.
A Class IV hitch usually has a 2" square receiver opening.
A higher class drawbar does not increase the towing capacity of the hitch. To use this class of hitch for weight distribution requires a weight distribution system.
Class IV hitches attach to the vehicle frame only.
Class V
Class V hitches are weight carrying (WC) and weight distributing (WD) hitches depending on the vehicle and hitch specifications.
Class V hitches used as weight carrying are rated up to 12,000 lbs. gross trailer weight (GTW) with a maximum trailer tongue weight (TW) of 1200 lbs.
Class V hitches used for weight distributing are rated up to 17,000 lbs. gross trailer weight (GTW) with a maximum trailer tongue weight (TW) of 1700 lbs.
Your ball mount and hitch ball need to both be rated for Class V to safely tow these weight loads. To use this class of hitch for weight distribution requires a weight distribution system.
A Class V hitch has a 2-1/2" square receiver opening.
Class V hitches attach to the vehicle frame only.
According to the specs above, I had a class III hitch from the factory, and so did the fellow member trying to help me out. I now have a class V hitch, but it has the 2" receiver, so #5 on the class V description can be different. However... in order to utilize that higher rating, the stinger is solid steel - not hollow. Oo-heavy.
I realize this is an oblique from the topic, but I still think it's worth mentioning when we're looking to tow heavy with more power, it's best to revisit everything that's going to absorb that added power.
It's not just the hardware under the hood, it also the tuning. With my 38R, I can dial up the EGTs or dial 'em down by just pushing a button on the Hydra.
Correct, but all you are doing is pulling fuel which is because you have a turbo that can not effectively handle the extra fuel. With an SXE this problem does NOT exist.
O.P. are you towing in overdrive? In 3rd gear you are at 4:10 gear ration in overdrive you are at 2.9 gear ratio. I can see why you would get hot using 80HP tune rated for 5K to 9k load. Why emojis are being placed in my sentence is a mystery.
. Definitely NOT worth the labor to do it as a stand-alone project IMO.
. I haven't installed the newer design intake tube (to their credit S&B sent it to me for free and I paid the shipping) to see if that helps. I loved my 6637 but it got dusty pretty quick off-roading and was not going to measure up to the new sticks, especially since I was originally dead set on going down the 38R path.
