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Rock auto has the jag pump, just look up 1986 XJ6 or keep an eye on craigslist for someone parting a 1980-87 XJ6. Probably the same back into the 1970s but I do not remember the year breakdowns.
I seriously would love to find more info about these pumps vs rack n pinion vs power steering box. pressure valve change out, etc. very surprised we don't have an expert on this!
This is why I bought an adjustable regulator. Even then, I not convinced that is really the answer, but I will find out eventually.
I'm going to measure the pulley on my saginaw/Ford pump tomorrow. I will also see if the pressure valve is removable.I will also find the thread where a member here went through some of this dilemma. He had some good pictures.
The ford Saginaw bracket can be bought on eBay. I saw several of them a few days ago. Like $65
If you looked around salvage yards and found one, I'm sure it would be cheaper.
The pressure regulating valve is spring loaded, so spinning it too fast would force the valve open, regulating the pressure, right?
Makes sense to me.
from a previous thread, post by 49Willard:
I confess that I do not remember exactly the difference in pressures from the Saginaw design and the Ford design but I think that the Ford pump pressures run lower I know there was a reason that I went Saginaw. The Jag used a Saginaw pump.
See below from a 2001 Street Rodder Magazine article:
But if you ran that Mustang II with a stock GM power steering pump
you could give it credit for introducing a touchy, light steering wheel. For
whatever reasons, in the early ’70s Ford designed their new power steering
racks to operate in the 700- to 800-psi range, and it worked just fine with
Ford pumps—after all, they were designed for it. The problem was that a
whole bunch of rods ran GM engines. Actually, engines weren’t the problem.
The real problem was that GM engines ran GM pumps—and for whatever
reasons, GM designed the pumps for 600- and 800-series steering boxes to
operate in the 1,000- to 1,200-psi range. So as you can imagine, things got a
little spooky—especially at speed. Some of
these idyllic swaps and
conversions
that looked so good on paper often flopped once on the pavement
Jeff this is exactly where my issue is there is very little if any info on pump-rack pressures and I am quite sure that most racks are in a similar pressure range but as I said the point of saying it should work is past . Right now my time has to be spent on some customer work ( accountant - wife seems to think incoming money is important ) but my next attempt will be to see if a saginaw gen 2 pump can be changed from a reverse rotation -attached resevior pump to a normal rotation remote pump as I have the vette pump and gen 2 pumps .This will be in the next little while as it is bugging the sh#$t ot of me and I will most certainly be sharing my findings .
@rhopper
Jeff, I don't know about the ford pumps, but GM's have the valve on the back of the pump, on the pressure side. I saw in a Heidts catalog, amoung other places (speedway maybe), an adjustable power steering pressure regulator. It's mainly for GM pumps on MII racks to reduce the pressure so an MII set up isn't squirley, but it might be needed on your setup, also. It looks alot like a brake proportioning valve. My wheels are 16 x 7, with a 3.75 backspace. Pretty standard.
@rhopper
Jeff, the pressure relief valve is on the back of the power steering pump, where the pressure line enters the pump. The large nut looking thing unscrews after removing the pressure line. The relief assembly is behind that. I swapped that from my jag pump, which is made by GM, to the GM pump I'm using on my S10 serpentine belt setup. I don't know if it's more or less pressure than needed for the jag, but I didn't want to risk it. BTW, the rack leaks! Damn Jag is marking it's territory. AFA the bump stops, I had the same thing even after doing the spacer think I told you about. After moving the truck around I now have 1 to 1 1/2" of space under the bump stop. It may have been just bound from not rolling after being dropped off of the jack. The 215/65r16 tires clear OK on the front, but I'm going to change them to 215/60r16 to ensure it will never rub. Took it to my club's show/cruise saturday night, it looks great. The stance is perfect. I'll have to post some pictures. -Rusty
@rhopper
Jeff, I've got about 100 miles on it so far. It feels good. I used the pressure relief valve from the jag power steering pump on my GM pump to keep the pressure correct, it's just a bit light effort, but OK. I lowered mine by removing the plastic 1/4 inch coil spring spacers, and spaced the lower spring plate down with washers. I got it alittle too low as I was rubbing with 235/60r16 tires. I'm swapping them to 215/65r16 tonight and I removed three of the four washers to raise it some. I've got a ride height of 10 1/2" at the bottom of the front frame horn. It rides good, steers and tracks fine, but I think I'd be happier with the xjs 1" front sway bar rather than the 3/4 xj6 bar. If I find one, I'll change it, if not it's OK. So far, so good.
Jeff this is exactly where my issue is there is very little if any info on pump-rack pressures and I am quite sure that most racks are in a similar pressure range but as I said the point of saying it should work is past . Right now my time has to be spent on some customer work ( accountant - wife seems to think incoming money is important ) but my next attempt will be to see if a saginaw gen 2 pump can be changed from a reverse rotation -attached resevior pump to a normal rotation remote pump as I have the vette pump and gen 2 pumps .This will be in the next little while as it is bugging the sh#$t ot of me and I will most certainly be sharing my findings .
I understand the need to get some customer work done!
I hope you don't mind me loading up your thread with some past conversations/posts.
So far my research is that a canned ham pump puts out 25gmp @1350-1450 psi gen2 pump15gmp @ 700 psi a ford c2 pump is 1.5 gmp @ 700 psi but runs at 1400-1500psi and a ford saginaw runs 1.8 gpm @620 psi running at 1350-1450 psi and that in general rack and pinions need 850-950 psi and boxes need 1550-1600 psi but info is not brand specific . M2 rack needs about 850 psi but no info on the requirements for a vette . Revalveing a canned ham pump is an option hoping that the vette and m2 racks are similar but the amount of bypass creates a lot of heat-horsepower loss whereas a gen 2 pump should be right . If these numbers make little sense to you welcome to my world .
On the more positive side I purchased the truck 7 or 8 years ago as an unfinished project with the vette suspension and a 85 vette motor with no accessories . It now has a 351 windsor roller cam 408 stroker aod combo and I drove it out of the shop to the car garage under its own power , this is very good for motivation .
So far my research is that a canned ham pump puts out 25gmp @1350-1450 psi gen2 pump15gmp @ 700 psi a ford c2 pump is 1.5 gmp @ 700 psi but runs at 1400-1500psi and a ford saginaw runs 1.8 gpm @620 psi running at 1350-1450 psi and that in general rack and pinions need 850-950 psi and boxes need 1550-1600 psi but info is not brand specific . M2 rack needs about 850 psi but no info on the requirements for a vette . Revalveing a canned ham pump is an option hoping that the vette and m2 racks are similar but the amount of bypass creates a lot of heat-horsepower loss whereas a gen 2 pump should be right . If these numbers make little sense to you welcome to my world .
I'm confused about this, you mention two pressures for each pump, did you mean certain pressure at certain RPM? Where did this info come from? Some one has that all jacked up!
When you get back to having time for this, look at your Corvette remote reservoir pump. remove the hard line from it. See if you can remove the nut from the pump. Where the line is plumbed into it. I'm pretty sure that is a Saginaw pump, but is just a remote reservoir style. The Pressure Relief valve from that, IF it is a Saginaw pump, Will fit the Ford Saginaw pump or the 88-96 Chevy Saginaw pump. These 2 pumps are, internally the same. The difference is only in the pressure relief valve. The flow(GPM) decreases with higher pressure, and increases with lower pressure. The higher pressure would create more heat and require more horsepower, The lower pressure (relief valve spring is lighter) would take less horsepower and create less heat.
Saginaw Power Steering Pumps from Hemmings Motor News
Power steering was not always standard equipment on every car, as it is today. New car buyers could order power steering as an option for just about any car built after 1953, but in the early years of its design, most were specific to make, model and year; and the extra cost involved (Chevrolet optional power steering cost an additional $178 in 1953!) in purchasing power steering made it a luxury for most drivers. The pricing came way down in the sixties as pumps and steering gearboxes became more standardized to the point that now you would be hard pressed to find a car off the assembly line that does not have power steering as standard equipment.
General Motors has been producing the Saginaw power steering pumps since the early Sixties for their GM cars and trucks. But did you realize that other American and foreign manufacturers used this same style of pump on their production cars at one time or another throughout the last 40 years? The Saginaw pump's simplicity of design and reliability made it a popular choice for many automotive manufacturers over that time period.
There are many versions of complete Saginaw pump assemblies that have been used; however, if you look at its multiple applications, most of those differences relate only to the type of reservoir and/or the pulley. Many complete pump assemblies look different by outward appearance because of hose connections and where they are mounted on the engine. However, the basic internal rotary-vane type pump has remained virtually unchanged since it was first introduced. The pump was held into a "ham can" reservoir by two o-ringed bolts or studs and the pressure valve-retaining nut. This is where the power steering pressure hose attaches to the pump. The power steering fluid is retained in the pump and reservoir assembly by use of another o-ring around the outside diameter of the pump itself and mated to the inside surface of the "ham can." A nipple connection on the back of the reservoir is where the power steering return line will clamp to complete the circulation of fluid through the power steering system.
There are only three basic types of Saginaw pump that were used between the early Sixties and the late Nineties. These are all considered "wet pumps" because the unit is housed within the fluid that it circulates. Units built before 1975 had a 5/8-inch inside diameter slide-on pulley assembly that was held stationary by a keyway and shaft nut. You will find this keyed-pulley version on any of these cars:
1968-'74 AMC 1963-'74 Chevy and GMC light-duty trucks Some 1965-'74 Chrysler products Some 1972-'74 Ford cars, IHC trucks and Jeeps 1963-'74 GM passenger cars (full-size Chevy cars as early as '61)
Manufacturers other than General Motors also used different types of power steering pumps supplied by Thompson, Federal and Eaton for certain applications; however, each had models and engine sizes where the Saginaw-designed pumps worked the best for their purposes, despite that they were built by a subsidiary of General Motors.
Two versions were used after 1975, both used a pulley that was pressed onto a 3/4-inch shaft with no keyway. The first unit was used from 1975-'79 (and some 1980 cars) and can be distinguished by the USS threaded holes on the front of the pump for the mounting brackets. This version of the Saginaw pump can be found on:
1975-'79 AMC and Jeep 1975-'79 Ford light-duty pickups and IHC trucks 1974-'79 Ford cars 1973-'87 Jaguars 1975-'79 Chrysler cars and Dodge trucks All 1975-'79 GM cars and light-duty trucks 1977-'78 Volvos
All pumps used from 1963 to 1979 used a 5/8-inch-18 inverted flare nut on the end of the power steering hose. Most of the hoses used in these cars were built with 7/16-inch tubing ends crimped on them (7/16-inch tubing uses the 5/8-inch-18 flare nuts).
Pumps used from 1980 to 1996 looked identical in outward appearance to the earlier units; however, the mounting holes on the face for mounting brackets were metric. Another way to determine the SAE unit from the metric pump is by the internal thread of the pressure valve retaining nut. The metric 1980-and-up units used a 16mm x 1.5 o-ring thread on the pressure hose. The newer versions also have an "X" cast into the mounting face of the pump and require a wider square-cut o-ring to be used on the reservoir mounting bolts or studs. These can be found on these production vehicles:
1980-'88 AMC 1980-'91 Jeep 1980-'89 Chrysler cars 1980-'83 Dodge light-duty pickups 1989-'92 Isuzu pickups 1980-'96 Chevy, Oldsmobile and GMC light-duty trucks 1980-'97 Ford pickups, Econoline and Bronco
Many different pressure valves were selected by manufacturers to match the gearbox setup, and the ratio they wanted to use. These valves screw into the back of the pump unit and are part of the retaining nut. A pressure spring is also located just behind this nut. When substituting between units, it is recommended whenever possible to use the original valve and spring out of your car, rather than from the donor car. This will ensure that the new pump assembly has the proper pressure for your gearbox. If you do not have the old valve for the pre-1975 units, there is a work-around to modify the pump to the correct pressure. If you remove the retaining nut and spring, some of the pressure valves have a threaded shaft with a nut on top with a series of washers. These washers help determine the pressure setting for the pump. Carefully hold the valve in a vise, without damaging the outer bore, and take off the nut. You can then change the number of washers. As you remove washers, the pressure setting of the valve (and pump) will increase. More washers equal less pressure. However, it should be noted that with less pressure, you would be able to get a better feel in the steering wheel for the condition of the road. Overdoing the pressure could also lead to early pump and/or gearbox failure, so don't over-pressurize.
In the case of power steering pumps, sometimes the old tried-and-true parts work the best, even for modern-day applications. It's nice to see that there is something American car manufacturers could agree on occasionally, too.
Mke plate to hold pump
Well two qualities " which I seem to posses " being stubborn and cheap can often lead to grief and sometimes might work . I could have ordered a saginaw pump - bracket but I was slightly concerned about the amount of flow and the lack of pressure info for the vette rack . So after allot of wandering though wreckers looking for a remote reservoir GM rack pump with no joy . So my solution was to take an attached reservoir pump off of a 92 Olds and make it remote and mount it to my existing bracket .
only a two bolt pump so I decided to fab up a third point .
A few more pics . I need to find a spot for the reservoir and get a pressure line , but Gm rack pump, proper pulley and vette relief valve should equal proper steering . Yee haa
only a two bolt pump so I decided to fab up a third point .
A few more pics . I need to find a spot for the reservoir and get a pressure line , but Gm rack pump, proper pulley and vette relief valve should equal proper steering . Yee haa
Looks like the same pump I use, 93-97 Z28. Works great with the jag rack, steering is not light or twitchy at all, very good match. The factory 86 XJ6 pressure line even worked, has a flare end at the rack and a metric oring end at the pump, fit like it was made for it.
06-08-2018, 10:18 AM
