Im fixing to place my order for some parts for my 302 swap. Im going with a 94-96 302 truck engine with E7 heads but will retain as much oem parts as possible. Mainly the stock 351 CFM 2150 carb and the stock ignition system (this is a driver). How ever I emailed PTP asking them what the specs are on the long block they offer to verify if it is a stock grind 94-96 cam.

Aside from that my big question is I know the older emission era 302`s had a 4 degree retard built into the crank sprocket for the timing set. I am how ever looking at getting a Cloyes True Street Roller timing set that has a 4 degree advance, straight up, or 4 degree retard slot on the crank.

I want to know on a 94-96 302 were they still putting 4 degree retard into the timing set crank?

I am trying to figure out if the Cloyes 9-1138 timing set needs to be set straight up at 0 for stock setting or if I need to run it on the 4* advance to bring the stock roller cam straight up for as much power as I can get.

 

Any retard is ground into the cam. Just run it straight up. Unless you use a degree wheel and have a cam card to work with, you will never for certain what the timing specs are set to. I've never seen any Ford timing set where the timing marks are anything other than straight up (timing mark inline with the crank key)

 

lol Well I will have a cam card and a degree wheel after all cause I am looking at two different comp cam roller cams. With the extra money I am making being the head honcho at work I can afford to invest a bit more money into this engine and get a little more performance out of it. I looked at the truck/4x4 cam that Crane has but I don't like the 2,000 - 5,500 rpm operating range. Basically means when I am running around town at 1500 rpm that I am not in the operating range of the cam. Will be once I start to hit 65 - 70 mph as I start to hit 2,000 - 2500 rpm.

The comp one I am really liking is a good HO replacement cam with a slight lope at idle. Not sure if they mean exhaust lope or engine lope itself. Don't want the engine to be shaking on me so that will be a killer for that cam. But that cam is 1,800 to 5,000 rpm. Not great but a lot closer to my city rpm range. They also have another cam smaller than this one same specs just duration is 205* vs 215*. That one is 1,200 - 4,500 rpm but is listed as a smooth idle, but its still bigger than the explorer cam even with the 1.7 rocker upgrade.

 

You can't really go by the advertised rpm range in their advertising. There's too many factors that determine that. They don't tell you what heads and intake are used with it. Nor whether it's carbed or EFI. All these factors change the rpm characteristics.

 

True. but the two cams I looked at just today were under the 85 - 95 factory roller with carb. I looked at the fuel injection roller cams they offered but the specs were a bit too aggressive. In the end my big thing is idle quality at oem idle spec and exhaust note. I don't want the truck to sound like a race engine. I don't mind a slight tone to the exhaust. I also want the truck to idle dead smooth as well. I already have one car that has a engine that lopes all over the place. Don't need my daily to do the same thing lol.

 

You're confusing exhaust tone and lope. They're one and the same. It's caused by too much overlap between the intake and exhaust valves. This is why EFI cams are smoother at idle, they minimize the overlap so that the idle air motor doesn't have trouble regulating the idle speed from too much overlap. Overlap is when the exhaust valve is still open while the intake valve is opening. In theory, this helped exhaust scavenging by letting some of the incoming flow, push out the remaining exhaust gasses. Somehow everyone thinks this is what a carbed motor needs to perform better. I've run EFI cams with a carb and they actually help a carb's circuits respond faster.

 

DD2000 shows the specs I found for the explorer cam that valve overlap is -40.5*. The 215 duration comp cam I am looking at that states its a good HO replacement cam with a slight lope it shows up on DD2000 with -5* valve over lap. From my understanding negative numbers mean there is no over lap its less than 0 degrees. Unless I am thinking about it wrong.

I know a motor doesn't know what the cam is for EFI or Carb it doesn't know the engine is still an airpump pulling in fuel and air. More air/fuel it can pull in and maintain in the cylinder without losing it out the exhaust from over lap is better from what I have read.

~Update~
Nope I didn't look right that is @ 0.050. I did the math with advertised. The Explorer cam comes up with 29 degrees of over lap and the 215 Duration comp cam comes up with 50 degrees of over lap. The 205 duration one that is a smooth idle comp cam shows up with a 40 degree of over lap.

Looking at this I don't think 10 degrees of more over lap is going to make much of a difference.

 

I'd go with the 266HR instead of the 260 HR purely because it's got a wider LSA which will give it a cleaner idle. (114* vs 110*) But if youre that concerned about idle quality I'd stick with the F4TE cam. It'll do everything you want it to.

 

Well either one will give better power output than the F4TE cam as far as DD2000 is showing up. Only thing is im getting considerably different results using 0.050" vs seat to seat timing.

None the less the figure I am coming up with for the F4TE with 600cfm 4V, shorty headers with muffler, with 8.8:1 compression (read the 96 GT40 302 ranged between 8.8 and 9.2 compression). Comes up with 232 HP @ 3500-4000 rpm and 348 TRQ @ 2000 rpm with 1.7:1 rockers. I only figured the lift with 1.7 rockers couldn't find formula for the duration change. Same specs but running the 260HR at 0.050" comes up with 255 HP @ 4500rpm and 364 TRQ @ 2000 rpm and for seat to seat timing shows 304 HP @ 5000 rpm and 362 TRQ @ 3500 rpm The 266HR I ran it @ 0.050 shows up with 267 HP @ 4500 rpm and 355 TRQ @ 2000 rpm.

So to me not much change in torque, think that's the limitation of the compression ratio of 8.8:1 which I want to low ball it in case this long block falls on the low side of compression. The horsepower changes quite a bit with the stock cam with 1.7 rockers giving around 230 HP and the 260HR gives around 255 HP and the 266HR giving 267 HP. For me I am want to find that nice middle ground and the 266HR does seem to sound like a good middle ground as it has a wider LSA than the other two cams I was looking at. How ever the 260HR has 40* of over lap, the other cam I looked at had 50* of over lap and the 266HR has 40* of over lap. The stock F4TE cam with the specs I was able to find shows it has 29* of over lap.

So if I am thinking about this correctly, I can run the 266HR for fuel injection and it should work similar to the 260HR carbureted application cam as the over lap is the same but the 266HR is dual patterned. Only thing is I am not too crazy about the 110* intake center line. Few guys I know keep nudging me saying shoot for 108* center line as it will make the response more snappier. In the end I don't know I am gathering as much information as I can to make an informed decision that I can live with and not one that has me regretting I didn't try something else. Another thing is I don't want useless power. For me I need to play with the vacuum modulator to change the wide throttle shift point. As of now passing gear kicks out just after 4,000 rpm, I am pretty sure I can raise the mph a little and get the shift to happen at 4,500 rpm. But if I am able to do that anything after 4,500 is power I never will use. so making peak hp at 5,000 rpm doesn't have any benefit for me.

 

You're overthinking this whole thing. As for a narrower LSA giving it a snappier response ? They full of ****. The wider LSA does that better. That carbed 5.0 I ran with the F4 cam ran exactly like an EFI motor. Unless I popped the hood and you saw what it had, you'd never know the difference. I could start it in 25* weather without ever touching the gas pedal and without a choke on the Holley carb simply by cranking it a few seconds. Pick a cam and run with it. You'll never know the difference between one and another without running them all in the same engine.

 

Oh I am sure I am over thinking it. Part of me wants to go with a aftermarket roller cam just to get in the .533 lift range. I could go with the 205/205 duration cam from comp but the 215/215 gave better results on DD2000. But then in the end the increases between the aftermarket cams are not large enough for it to really be noticed street driving. Especially considering most of the cams are building more power up in the 3,500 - 4,000 rpm range which wont be seen under normal driving conditions unless I floor the throttle.