Truck: 1974 F100 360

Replacing my starter and have come across a couple things I have questions on. First, when I removed the starter today all it had were the two bottom bolts holding it on. Should I reinstall it this way or try to locate a correct bolt? I would think do it correctly with 3. What size bolt do I get and where would I find one? Next, does the starter need to be install with any sort of gasket Third, here is a pic of where I removed the old starter. Does anyone see any problems that I need to fix before I reinstall the new starter. Thanks.

 

Hey ww. Well, even though I've seen the starters with 3-bolts, seen the spacers with 3-bolts, I can't say I've ever seen the engine plate/bell housing for the 3-bolt setups until now!
But I have heard that many of them (all of them maybe?) have been installed with just 2 bolts with no issues. Doesn't seem right to me, and odd that they would design a 3-bolt setup that can be used with just 2. But your experience seems to bear that out.

Oh, and no gasket is used generally.
If your starter is 3 bolts and all holes line up, I would certainly use all 3 bolts. Even if you didn't have any trouble before, if the holes line up, use them.
I don't see any wear that's worth replacing things at this point. But all we can see in the pic is that one section of the ring gear. Part of a starter R&R is to inspect all the teeth to make sure they're intact and that not too many of them look like that one that's a little mushroomed over on the edge.
I do see general wear and tear on most of them, but in the light of the image it's hard to tell if they're just a little shiny, or if the teeth are truly distorted. Can you post a pic from a different angle that might show more of the face of the teeth?
And definitely spin the engine over by hand while you want the ring gear all the way around.
After all, now's the time!

Paul

 

I'd also vote to utilize the third bolt hole if possible. I'm wondering what the problem was with the starter you removed. If it's a simple problem, starters can be rebuilt inexpensively by the owner. Clean up everything before reinstalling, including the previously unused threaded hole. Probably you can use one of the existing bolts as a "pattern" for the required 3rd bolt. If they are "special" you may have to go to a vendor dealing only in fasteners.

 

Thanks for the replies. Very much appreciated. I will try to get some more pictures but I had the truck parked in very uneven ground when the starter gave out. Most likely I will put in a new starter, move the truck, take everything back apart and check everything over properly at that point. Will clean best I can though to keep the new starter from getting gunked up before I quit tinkering with it.

I was going to return the old starter so I could recover my 15$ core charge but may check into what I can do to rebuild it. Would not hurt to have a 2nd starter on hand. Any ideas how to check what is wrong with the old one? The last time the truck ran, we heard an odd sound come from the direction of the starter upon turning the key. Had that gut feeling at the time the starter had given up. Next time tried to start it, turned the key and it sorta tried to start, but wouldn't. Turn the key again and all I would get was a loud click(more like a clunk sound) from the solenoid.

 

I'd use 3 bolts if it lines up. I would investigate the oil leak above it..I bet valve cover gaskets. I would insp the complete ring gear very well. I see what looks like some damage teeth starting out at the bottom working up for 8 teeth. Then 4 are ok, and at the spot weld and counting up back to some worn ones. Hand turn over the engine and insp thru out. FYI that is a 2 man job to go way faster.

The grounding sound could be a bad starter to ring gear connection when the starter kicks the bendix gear out. What did the bendix gear look like? ate up and well worn? I would bench test the starter old school at the house. A battery and jumper cables and the starter laying on the floor, with you foot on it to keep it from rolling around when you hit it with the J cables on the contacts.

New starter beats well used and oily starter, CHEAPEST starter available does not come in to play here.

 

For the bolt thread, here is the following:
1/2" socket = 5/16-18 (coarse) or 5/16-24 (fine)
9/16" socket = 3/8-16 (coarse) 3/8-24 (fine)
Easiest way is to take your remaining bolt into hardware store to match up.Make sure to put a light coat of anti-seize on the threads before installing.

 

 

 

Cork valve cover gaskets are one time use. They compress and bake into a shape and will not seal properly the second time around. There may be rubber gaskets available for your engine, they may be more expensive, but worth every penny.
As to the bolt- I bet the missing one is the same as the other two- just match one up at the hardware store, err to the side of longer and use it where it cannot bottom out if you know what I mean.

 

Bwah?!! No, that's not true, that's not true at all.

Have been using the very same cork valve cover gaskets on the Y Block for 20 years and they have been on and off dozens of times. They are glued to the valve cover itself, though no other sealants used. They do sort of get baked on, that's what you want. Just apply fresh clean oil to the gasket and it's ready to re-install.

The reason these covers have been on and off so many times is because Y Blocks have solid lifters, and the valve lash needs periodic adjusting, valve seal replacement, they do not leak. In fact I sort of prefer cork valve gaskets for this reason. Leaky valve covers whether cork, rubber, composite, is all about the technique of the installer. Mostly people overtighten. Since they leak ... they tighten some more ... oops

Hang on to your old starter! $15 core isn't even close to worth it. There is a website something like www.alternatorstarterrebuildkits.com that probably has what you need. Decent prices. Then you can rebuild your original, throw it on the shelf and forget about it.

When you need a starter you'll remember, because you won't have to gamble on the whole BS "lifetime warranty" spray & pray POS the auto parts stores carry.

The best thing you can do for your starter (and alternator) is replace those old, dried out stiff-as-a-dead-roadkill-squirrel starter cables and ground cables, clean up those ground connections to frame & firewall.

 

Starter is the same 1965/76 A/T & M/T all FE engines, retained by (3) 352464-S8 .. Bolt-Hex Head 5/16" -18 x 1 1/8."

 

 

One thing to remember is the starter gets its juice through the block, so clean up both surfaces so they are clean and tight, no grease and crud (like in first pic!) with good solid metal to metal contact.

Third bolt is missing probably because it's a PITA to get to and when the starter went out the last time in 1980 it was -40° F below zero and somebody got lazy. Two 1/4" drive socket extensions taped together are your friend here.

Gonna have to take a closer look at your ring gear, they don't look real great, a couple of them anyway. The starter drive aka Bendix in the pic has some chipped and worn teeth. That's OK, they are kinda supposed to be softer material and wear first, but it needs replaced. Does your new starter come with a new starter drive? Finally in that era, there's something about slight differences between M/T and A/T equipped trucks, the starters are not interchangeable. They'll fit but they won't work right.

Do yourself a favor and couple a new, good quality solenoid/starter relay with your new starter. This is standard practice in the industry. Make sure it too, is grounded securely to the firewall or wherever it's installed.

Given the age of your truck, fresh starter and ground cables too, clean up rusty ground points. If they are original to the truck, replace all of them, to include frame and firewall cables too. Trust Me. If there's a tractor supply nearby they can ... wait for it ... hook you up.

Finally charge that battery up thoroughly with a charger! Everything will be good for another 40 years, start reliably hot or cold.

 

 

You'll have to disassemble and do a close inspection. Could be brushes. Could be starter drive (sometimes called overrun clutch)(sometimes called Bendix). It's confusing when there are multiple names for the same thing. This happens with computers also. Just do a good inspection and fix what's needed. Individual parts and rebuild kits are available usually.

Your photos are good. Good photos help a lot.

I'm not familiar with that starter. The photos make me think that either the casting has some damage or it is a rather "rough" casting. Others with a 360 should be able to comment more accurately.