Injector swapping
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Joined: Nov 2012
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From: Denton, TX
Injector swapping
Quick background: My 2001 developed a slight rod knock after 287k miles (I know right? How did that happen? Not sure so, moving on) I swapped it out with a used engine I was told came from a 99 w/180k miles on it. During the swap we put the turbo from my 01 on it because it appeared to be in better shape (not really important but being thorough in my story telling). That was running perfectly fine for 20k miles. A few nights ago I drove 50+ miles home from work & stopped for dinner. When I got back in my truck it was idling rough & down on power. It died on me driving home. I took it to my buddy’s shop where we did an injector test & it came back with codes for injectors 2, 3 & 8.
Here’s where it gets tricky. My old engine has been sitting at his shop for 6+ months & it ran fine other than the rod knock so I thought, why not try putting those injectors into my replacement 99? engine to save some money. We swapped them all out & the truck won’t fire. It tries to run but never fully kicks over. It makes the loud clacking sound like it’s got low fuel pressure. I know I have fuel pressure as the bowl & we did a make shift compression test to rule out a mechanical issue but still no run.
So my question is, are the injectors from my 2001 engine different than the injectors in a late 99 engine & if so, could that be the reason it won’t run? Before you start, I know, I should have used all new injectors instead of used ones which is what I’m going to do now. Are there any serial #s on the injectors that will help me discern which injectors I need to order since I can’t go off the VIN of the vehicle due to the engine swap? Also, if there is a difference in injectors, will my PCM need to be changed or remapped in some way? It’s hard to believe there’s a difference since the truck has run fine for 20K miles since the swap but I’m just not sure.
Here’s where it gets tricky. My old engine has been sitting at his shop for 6+ months & it ran fine other than the rod knock so I thought, why not try putting those injectors into my replacement 99? engine to save some money. We swapped them all out & the truck won’t fire. It tries to run but never fully kicks over. It makes the loud clacking sound like it’s got low fuel pressure. I know I have fuel pressure as the bowl & we did a make shift compression test to rule out a mechanical issue but still no run.
So my question is, are the injectors from my 2001 engine different than the injectors in a late 99 engine & if so, could that be the reason it won’t run? Before you start, I know, I should have used all new injectors instead of used ones which is what I’m going to do now. Are there any serial #s on the injectors that will help me discern which injectors I need to order since I can’t go off the VIN of the vehicle due to the engine swap? Also, if there is a difference in injectors, will my PCM need to be changed or remapped in some way? It’s hard to believe there’s a difference since the truck has run fine for 20K miles since the swap but I’m just not sure.
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From: Asheville-where weird is
There should be no difference in injectors between a L99 and an '01 IF both have or had stock injectors which should be split shots. If you were to put single shots in the truck, it should still crank and run without having to have the PCM flashed or installing a chip. Even if the injectors were e99's which have a lower capacity this should not be a problem.
I don't think that serial numbers are helpful due to the possibility of them having been remanned or upgraded.
First, we need FRESH codes to prevent you from throwing money into the wind while buying new parts that may not fix the problem due to replacing perfectly good working parts. It could easily be a bad IPR: spray it with an inverted can of air for computers or slowly pour a cup of ice cold water on it and immediately try to crank it, ICP: unplug it and see if the engine will start, little to no fuel or pressure in the heads, low battery voltage, and very, very rarely the HPOP, bad UVC or 42-pin connector issues, bad injector o-rings, improper injector torque as in too loose, and all of that is simply spitballing.
I would get codes and publish them here prior to buying injectors that you may not need.
I don't think that serial numbers are helpful due to the possibility of them having been remanned or upgraded.
First, we need FRESH codes to prevent you from throwing money into the wind while buying new parts that may not fix the problem due to replacing perfectly good working parts. It could easily be a bad IPR: spray it with an inverted can of air for computers or slowly pour a cup of ice cold water on it and immediately try to crank it, ICP: unplug it and see if the engine will start, little to no fuel or pressure in the heads, low battery voltage, and very, very rarely the HPOP, bad UVC or 42-pin connector issues, bad injector o-rings, improper injector torque as in too loose, and all of that is simply spitballing.
I would get codes and publish them here prior to buying injectors that you may not need.
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From: Denton, TX
These codes were pulled before we swapped the injectors but we didn’t pull any codes since the swap b/c we ran out of time & also because we can’t get it to run at all.
P0266
P0269
P0284
P0541
We did crank it for at least 45 minutes for 30+ seconds each time allowing 2.5 minutes between attempts. It would sound like it was firing but it was “clacking” really loudly after 10 seconds of cranking.
P0266
P0269
P0284
P0541
We did crank it for at least 45 minutes for 30+ seconds each time allowing 2.5 minutes between attempts. It would sound like it was firing but it was “clacking” really loudly after 10 seconds of cranking.
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Stewart
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From: Denton, TX
He used an IDS to run a full set of tests. I don’t remember exactly which tests he did. The buzz test made a few of the cylinders sound like they weren’t working well. He’s a very good friend & a very competent mechanic. He’s familiar w/7.3s & based on the symptoms, we both agreed it was bad injectors but we could both be wrong.
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From: Asheville-where weird is
So, 2, 3, and 8 on a CC test are not that uncommon. I can get 2 and 8 almost every time by simply changing into a different tune and running the same test that those injectors passed on the previous tune.
Next, the UVC or anything in between the injector solenoid and the IDM can cause these as well and a bad connection from the PCM to the IDM could cause issues. It could be a wiring issue. Try plugging the block heater in for two hours and then try cranking. Some won't crank below 65-70 degrees and run perfectly normal once the cylinders and heads have some heat. If this doesn't solve it or helps somewhat, start looking at glow plugs, or GPR, and or wiring to them from the GP relay or GPCM.
We still need fresh codes due to the fact that we don't know how old the old ones were and how long they had been stored. They are irrelevant at this point anyway due to the injectors having been changed. The AIH code is irrelevant too in my opinion.
Next, the UVC or anything in between the injector solenoid and the IDM can cause these as well and a bad connection from the PCM to the IDM could cause issues. It could be a wiring issue. Try plugging the block heater in for two hours and then try cranking. Some won't crank below 65-70 degrees and run perfectly normal once the cylinders and heads have some heat. If this doesn't solve it or helps somewhat, start looking at glow plugs, or GPR, and or wiring to them from the GP relay or GPCM.
We still need fresh codes due to the fact that we don't know how old the old ones were and how long they had been stored. They are irrelevant at this point anyway due to the injectors having been changed. The AIH code is irrelevant too in my opinion.
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From: Asheville-where weird is
Try the OHM test at the 42-pin connector to both the glow plugs and the injectors. I'll see if I can find the pin-out and the resistance values for each or someone else may have them handy.
ON EDIT: Thread with diagrams and GP resistance values but lacks values for injectors.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...w-to-tell.html
Also, if it is the GPR, you can bridge the two large lugs with a screw driver to bypass the GPR and power the glow plugs.
And: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/8...ck-shakes.html
ON EDIT: Thread with diagrams and GP resistance values but lacks values for injectors.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...w-to-tell.html
Also, if it is the GPR, you can bridge the two large lugs with a screw driver to bypass the GPR and power the glow plugs.
And: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/8...ck-shakes.html
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From: Asheville-where weird is
See above for new additions.
Honestly, I cannot see how swapping injectors that ran fine for 50+ miles and then sat and idled or shut down and then was restarted and then began running rough can be anything other than a electrical issue. A connector may have become loose due to vibration. It is quite common and some of the newer connectors have been updated with clips to prevent this from happening. Check 42- pin connector for the values in the above threads. Then, if the values are not up to spec, move to the UVC connector. If they still aren't up to spec, remove the valve covers and check each connector to the injectors and the GP's to see if the problem is there. Then check the values at each end point on the individual injectors.
If it is the UVC, then do the .50 cent mod or purchase the updated harness/VCG's that have the built-in clips to prevent it from happening again.
Honestly, I cannot see how swapping injectors that ran fine for 50+ miles and then sat and idled or shut down and then was restarted and then began running rough can be anything other than a electrical issue. A connector may have become loose due to vibration. It is quite common and some of the newer connectors have been updated with clips to prevent this from happening. Check 42- pin connector for the values in the above threads. Then, if the values are not up to spec, move to the UVC connector. If they still aren't up to spec, remove the valve covers and check each connector to the injectors and the GP's to see if the problem is there. Then check the values at each end point on the individual injectors.
If it is the UVC, then do the .50 cent mod or purchase the updated harness/VCG's that have the built-in clips to prevent it from happening again.
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Joined: Dec 2006
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From: San Diego, CA
Do you have any way to monitor parameters? As already mentioned, I find it pretty improbable that all of your injectors died and the truck won't fire. I've read of trucks starting with only one bank of injectors working.
When I replaced my injectors it would crank and crank. As soon as I got above 500 psi it fired right up (the injectors won't fire unless there's at least 500 psi oil pressure).
There have been several no-start issues over the last year or so with injector replacements/swaps. A bad HPOP and a stuck injector solenoid are two that come to mind right now.
I would hate to see you make that investment and still have the issue. Just my .02
When I replaced my injectors it would crank and crank. As soon as I got above 500 psi it fired right up (the injectors won't fire unless there's at least 500 psi oil pressure).
There have been several no-start issues over the last year or so with injector replacements/swaps. A bad HPOP and a stuck injector solenoid are two that come to mind right now.
I would hate to see you make that investment and still have the issue. Just my .02
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From: Denton, TX
Before we swapped the injectors I was at 2000 psi, the IPR was at 15%. We even tried spraying WD40 into the intake to see if it would run at all & it’ll try to fire but only while the starter is turning it over.
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From: Mcdonough, GA
2000 PSI and IPR at 15% sounds like you have good HPO. You said good fuel pressure because it is in the bowl. Have you put a pressure gauge on the fuel bowl downstream of the filter to make sure you have good pressure?