Injector cup install help
#1
04-27-2018, 02:26 AM
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#2
04-27-2018, 07:07 AM
Fleet Owner
#3
04-27-2018, 07:42 AM
#7
04-27-2018, 04:36 PM
Hotshot
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#8
04-27-2018, 05:12 PM
I just used one of Riffraff Diesels rental tool set and it shipped about 4 days after I ordered it.
Motorcraft 7.3L Injector Cup Kit 94-03 (F4TZ9F538A)
Motorcraft 7.3L Injector Cup Kit 94-03 (F4TZ9F538A)
#12
04-28-2018, 03:45 PM
Two cups in my e99 cracked at 144k. I see that you have ordered parts and I have added some clarifying info for future readers since they will likely find this thread quickly due to the specificity of your title. Good work.
The answers to this are subjective at best. One possibility is loose injectors that jump up and down each time there is an injection of fuel and a corresponding detonation in the cylinder. If the injector hold down bolts were only torqued or have loosened to say 80 in/lbs instead of the factory spec of 120 in/lbs then it could take many thousands of miles. If they were at 50 in/lbs, I would guess it would not take nearly as long. The engine would become progressively louder as the torque on the hold down bolts decreased. You can check for this by using a torque wrench to gradually inspect torque by starting at 50 in/lbs and slowly working up to factory torque in 5-10 in/lb increments until they start to turn.
Also, only use an INCH Pound rated torque wrench during this process and "especially" during the install. You will want one that is rated from approximately 20-180 in/lbs.
Another would be that the sealant used to seat/seal the cups has failed.
You'll know a bit more once they are out. You should be able to see a crack in a cup if one exists. If there are no cracks in any cups, then my guess would be sealant failure: the cause of which could be many things to include an improper amount being used at the factory or the correct amount being used but applied to the wrong surface or simply age.
Use only Loctite 620 or the Ford equivalent for the cup retaining compound and let it cure a minimum of 12 hours prior to installing the injectors. The bore hole cannot be too clean prior to installing the new cups. Spend extra time on this part or you may wind up doing it again. UGH! You'll also need a mirror during the cleaning process to see the rear holes. Get lots of brushes too. Consider pressure testing the newly replaced cups after the retaining compound has set-up and prior to installing the injectors.
http://www.riffraffdiesel.com/conten...eplacement.pdf : injector cup install instructions and injector install instructions: http://www.riffraffdiesel.com/conten...structions.pdf respectively. Also, IF you follow the Riffraff instructions while using Clay's tool, the torque spec for installing the cups while using the tool is NOT gospel. I had to exceed it by about 20 foot/lbs to get two cups seated in an F250 about three months ago and this was not due to a lack of cleanliness in the heads.
This would be a great time for you to decide if you want to "hot torque" the lower hold down bolts which "I" DO recommend. Additionally, I choose to exceed the factory torque spec by at least 10 in/lbs and no more than 20 in/lbs. I also remove the upper hold down bolt, clean the hole to remove all oil and use Loctite 243 to secure the upper hold down bolt. Some folks use it on the lower hold down bolt too. There may be some folks that agree with all of these steps and some that agree to some of these steps but not all. There are others who stick to factory spec on a cold engine and call it a day with success who will totally disagree with anything other than factory specs which I and many other have had mixed results/failures after following. The 'e99 in my sig is the quietest it has ever been following these steps and has maintained the quietness for 120k miles.
If you choose to hot torque, plugging in the block heater an hour or two before you complete the first crank of the engine and leaving it plugged in while the engine is running will greatly assist in getting the engine up to near full operating temperature and shorten the time required for the hot torque. Most of us that do the hot torque find that the injectors have loosened about 10-25 inch/lbs during the warm-up procedure. You can also leave the valve covers completely off during warm up and have little to no mess or simply lay them on the heads to prevent the small amount of oil that gets splattered around.
Upon initial disassembly, remove the rear most injectors first. This will cause the oil and fuel in the rails on the heads to empty mostly into those cylinders. I purge the cylinders by hand turning the engine at an extremely slow rate, about one rev per minute. This prevents a decent sized mess in the engine compartment. A word of caution: regardless of whether you hand turn the engine or use the starter to turn the engine over which I DO NOT recommend since a piston or a connecting rod could be damaged, make sure that no person or objects are near the engine and especially in the path of the oil/fuel mixture that is going to be pushed out of the heads at a high velocity and under high pressure. Also, place a sheet of plastic or cardboard on the ground under the rear of the engine to catch the oil and fuel that WILL come out. Some use a Mighty Vac or equivalent to remove the majority of the liquid prior to hand turning the engine. Once the injectors are installed, the 42-pin connector is still not connected, and while the glow plugs are still out, I then use the stater to turn the engine over for about 20-30 seconds X3 which completes the final purge and then install the glow plugs. You will know that the cylinders are purged when the is no longer a white-ish mist coming out of the glow plug holes. This also greatly assists in purging air out of the high pressure oil system while making the engine easier to turn for the starter. If followed, you should have an engine that fires up within 5-10 seconds on the first attempt instead of the normal 3-5 times at 30 seconds each. You'll also purge the remaining air in about a 5-10 mile run instead of the usual 30-50 miles = time and fuel savings.
BTW, this is a really good time to put fresh new "OEM only" glow plugs in. Do not use the cheap NAPA, AZ, AA, O'Reilly, etc plugs as the tips on them can expand which can/will require the removal of the heads to get them out if it does happen.
A coolant flush is also in order at this time. You may consider upgrading to an ELC, I use Rotella "Concentrated" from Tractor Supply @ $17/gal, which requires less maintenance and cost in the long run, while following the Gooch procedure at this point. You'll also need about 30-35 gallons of DISTILLED water @ about .80 cents per gallon at Wal-Mart.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/9...ml#post8935201
Replacing injector o-rings, Alliant only, would also be a very good idea now. Most of us would not do this job without replacing them.
....
The answers to this are subjective at best. One possibility is loose injectors that jump up and down each time there is an injection of fuel and a corresponding detonation in the cylinder. If the injector hold down bolts were only torqued or have loosened to say 80 in/lbs instead of the factory spec of 120 in/lbs then it could take many thousands of miles. If they were at 50 in/lbs, I would guess it would not take nearly as long. The engine would become progressively louder as the torque on the hold down bolts decreased. You can check for this by using a torque wrench to gradually inspect torque by starting at 50 in/lbs and slowly working up to factory torque in 5-10 in/lb increments until they start to turn.
Also, only use an INCH Pound rated torque wrench during this process and "especially" during the install. You will want one that is rated from approximately 20-180 in/lbs.
Another would be that the sealant used to seat/seal the cups has failed.
You'll know a bit more once they are out. You should be able to see a crack in a cup if one exists. If there are no cracks in any cups, then my guess would be sealant failure: the cause of which could be many things to include an improper amount being used at the factory or the correct amount being used but applied to the wrong surface or simply age.
Use only Loctite 620 or the Ford equivalent for the cup retaining compound and let it cure a minimum of 12 hours prior to installing the injectors. The bore hole cannot be too clean prior to installing the new cups. Spend extra time on this part or you may wind up doing it again. UGH! You'll also need a mirror during the cleaning process to see the rear holes. Get lots of brushes too. Consider pressure testing the newly replaced cups after the retaining compound has set-up and prior to installing the injectors.
http://www.riffraffdiesel.com/conten...eplacement.pdf : injector cup install instructions and injector install instructions: http://www.riffraffdiesel.com/conten...structions.pdf respectively. Also, IF you follow the Riffraff instructions while using Clay's tool, the torque spec for installing the cups while using the tool is NOT gospel. I had to exceed it by about 20 foot/lbs to get two cups seated in an F250 about three months ago and this was not due to a lack of cleanliness in the heads.
This would be a great time for you to decide if you want to "hot torque" the lower hold down bolts which "I" DO recommend. Additionally, I choose to exceed the factory torque spec by at least 10 in/lbs and no more than 20 in/lbs. I also remove the upper hold down bolt, clean the hole to remove all oil and use Loctite 243 to secure the upper hold down bolt. Some folks use it on the lower hold down bolt too. There may be some folks that agree with all of these steps and some that agree to some of these steps but not all. There are others who stick to factory spec on a cold engine and call it a day with success who will totally disagree with anything other than factory specs which I and many other have had mixed results/failures after following. The 'e99 in my sig is the quietest it has ever been following these steps and has maintained the quietness for 120k miles.
If you choose to hot torque, plugging in the block heater an hour or two before you complete the first crank of the engine and leaving it plugged in while the engine is running will greatly assist in getting the engine up to near full operating temperature and shorten the time required for the hot torque. Most of us that do the hot torque find that the injectors have loosened about 10-25 inch/lbs during the warm-up procedure. You can also leave the valve covers completely off during warm up and have little to no mess or simply lay them on the heads to prevent the small amount of oil that gets splattered around.
Upon initial disassembly, remove the rear most injectors first. This will cause the oil and fuel in the rails on the heads to empty mostly into those cylinders. I purge the cylinders by hand turning the engine at an extremely slow rate, about one rev per minute. This prevents a decent sized mess in the engine compartment. A word of caution: regardless of whether you hand turn the engine or use the starter to turn the engine over which I DO NOT recommend since a piston or a connecting rod could be damaged, make sure that no person or objects are near the engine and especially in the path of the oil/fuel mixture that is going to be pushed out of the heads at a high velocity and under high pressure. Also, place a sheet of plastic or cardboard on the ground under the rear of the engine to catch the oil and fuel that WILL come out. Some use a Mighty Vac or equivalent to remove the majority of the liquid prior to hand turning the engine. Once the injectors are installed, the 42-pin connector is still not connected, and while the glow plugs are still out, I then use the stater to turn the engine over for about 20-30 seconds X3 which completes the final purge and then install the glow plugs. You will know that the cylinders are purged when the is no longer a white-ish mist coming out of the glow plug holes. This also greatly assists in purging air out of the high pressure oil system while making the engine easier to turn for the starter. If followed, you should have an engine that fires up within 5-10 seconds on the first attempt instead of the normal 3-5 times at 30 seconds each. You'll also purge the remaining air in about a 5-10 mile run instead of the usual 30-50 miles = time and fuel savings.
BTW, this is a really good time to put fresh new "OEM only" glow plugs in. Do not use the cheap NAPA, AZ, AA, O'Reilly, etc plugs as the tips on them can expand which can/will require the removal of the heads to get them out if it does happen.
A coolant flush is also in order at this time. You may consider upgrading to an ELC, I use Rotella "Concentrated" from Tractor Supply @ $17/gal, which requires less maintenance and cost in the long run, while following the Gooch procedure at this point. You'll also need about 30-35 gallons of DISTILLED water @ about .80 cents per gallon at Wal-Mart.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/9...ml#post8935201
Replacing injector o-rings, Alliant only, would also be a very good idea now. Most of us would not do this job without replacing them.
....
#13
04-28-2018, 08:11 PM
Hotshot
Dont buy no name brand injector O rings, make sure they are Alliant/Motorcraft ones, the no name ones wont last. Use 620 Blue lock tite ( correct me if im wrong) and make sure the cup bores are clean of any old sealant. Tugly has a good (HOW TO thread) and as most say go to Riffraff and they can rent you the tool, i bought mine thru Innovated diesel performance or something like that and the tool has held up really good the 10+ times I have used it.
#14
04-29-2018, 04:04 AM
#15
04-29-2018, 05:49 AM
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
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Two cups in my e99 cracked at 144k. I see that you have ordered parts and I have added some clarifying info for future readers since they will likely find this thread quickly due to the specificity of your title. Good work.
The answers to this are subjective at best. One possibility is loose injectors that jump up and down each time there is an injection of fuel and a corresponding detonation in the cylinder. If the injector hold down bolts were only torqued or have loosened to say 80 in/lbs instead of the factory spec of 120 in/lbs then it could take many thousands of miles. If they were at 50 in/lbs, I would guess it would not take nearly as long. The engine would become progressively louder as the torque on the hold down bolts decreased. You can check for this by using a torque wrench to gradually inspect torque by starting at 50 in/lbs and slowly working up to factory torque in 5-10 in/lb increments until they start to turn.
Also, only use an INCH Pound rated torque wrench during this process and "especially" during the install. You will want one that is rated from approximately 20-180 in/lbs.
Another would be that the sealant used to seat/seal the cups has failed.
You'll know a bit more once they are out. You should be able to see a crack in a cup if one exists. If there are no cracks in any cups, then my guess would be sealant failure: the cause of which could be many things to include improper amount being used at the factory or the correct amount being used but applied to the wrong surface or simply age.
Use only Loctite 620 or the Ford equivalent for the retaining compound and let it cure a minimum of 12 hours prior to installing the injectors. The bore hole cannot be too clean prior to installing the new cups. Spend extra time on this part or you may wind up doing it again. UGH! You'll also need a mirror during the cleaning process to see the rear holes. Get lots of brushes too. Consider pressure testing the newly replaced cups after the retaining compound has set-up and prior to installing the injectors.
http://www.riffraffdiesel.com/content/RESOURCES/Riffraff_Diesel_Injector_Cup_Replacement.pdf http://www.riffraffdiesel.com/content/RESOURCES/Riffraff_Diesel_7.3L_Injector_Replacement_Instruct ions.pdf : injector cup install instructions and injector install instructions respectively. Also, IF you follow the Riffraff instructions while using Clay's tool, the torque spec for installing the cups while using the tool is NOT gospel. I had to exceed it by about 20 foot/lbs to get two cups seated in an F250 about three months ago and this was not due to a lack of cleanliness in the heads.
This would be a great time for you to decide if you want to "hot torque" the lower hold down bolts which "I" DO recommend. Additionally, I choose to exceed the factory torque spec by at least 10 in/lbs and no more than 20 in/lbs. I also remove the upper hold down bolt, clean the hole to remove all oil and use Loctite 243 to secure the upper hold down bolt. Some folks use it on the lower hold down bolt too. There may be some folks that agree with all of these steps and some that agree to some of these steps but not all. There are others who stick to factory spec on a cold engine and call it a day with success who will totally disagree with anything other than factory specs which I and many other have had mixed results/failures after following. The 'e99 in my sig is the quietest it has ever been following these steps and has maintained the quietness for 120k miles.
If you choose to hot torque, plugging in the block heater an hour or two before you complete the first crank of the engine and leaving it plugged in while the engine is running will greatly assist in getting the engine up to near full operating temperature and shorten the time required for the hot torque. Most of us that do the hot torque find that the injectors have loosened about 10-25 inch/lbs during the warm-up procedure. You can also leave the valve covers completely off during warm up and have little to no mess or simply lay them on the heads to prevent the small amount of oil that gets splattered around.
Upon initial disassembly, remove the rear most injectors first. This will cause the oil and fuel in the rails on the heads to empty mostly into those cylinders. I purge the cylinders by hand turning the engine at an extremely slow rate, about one rev per minute. This prevents a decent sized mess in the engine compartment. A word of caution: regardless of whether you hand turn the engine or use the starter to turn the engine over which I DO NOT recommend since a piston or a connecting rod could be damaged, make sure that no person or objects are near the engine and especially in the path of the oil/fuel mixture that is going to be pushed out of the heads at a high velocity and under high pressure. Also, place a sheet of plastic or cardboard on the gound under the rear of the engine to catch the oil and fuel that WILL come out. Some use a Mighty Vac or equivalent to remove the majority of the liquid prior to hand turning the engine. Once the injectors are installed, the 42-pin connector is still not connected, and while the glow plugs are still out, I then use the stater to turn the engine over for about 20-30 seconds X3 which completes the final purge and then install the glow plugs. You will know that the cylinders are purged when the is no longer a white-ish mist coming out or the glow plug holes. This also greatly assists in purging air out of the high pressure oil system while making the engine easier to turn for the starter. If followed, you should have an engine that fires up within 5-10 seconds on the first attempt instead of the normal 3-5 times at 30 seconds each. You'll also purge the remaining air in about a 5-10 mile run instead of the ususal 30-50 miles = time and fuel savings.
BTW, this is a really good time to put fresh new "OEM only" glow plugs in. Do not use the cheap NAPA, AZ, AA, O'Reilly, etc plugs as the tips on them can expand which can/will require the removal of the heads to get them out if it does happen.
A coolant flush is also in order at this time. You may consider upgrading to an ELC, I use Rotella "Concentrated" from Tractor Supply @ $17/gal, which requires less maintenance and cost in the long run, while following the Gooch procedure at this point. You'll also need about 30-35 gallons of DISTILLED water @ about .80 cents per gallon at Wal-Mart.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/9...ml#post8935201
Replacing injector o-rings, Alliant only, would also be a very good idea now. Most of us would not do this job without replacing them.
....
The answers to this are subjective at best. One possibility is loose injectors that jump up and down each time there is an injection of fuel and a corresponding detonation in the cylinder. If the injector hold down bolts were only torqued or have loosened to say 80 in/lbs instead of the factory spec of 120 in/lbs then it could take many thousands of miles. If they were at 50 in/lbs, I would guess it would not take nearly as long. The engine would become progressively louder as the torque on the hold down bolts decreased. You can check for this by using a torque wrench to gradually inspect torque by starting at 50 in/lbs and slowly working up to factory torque in 5-10 in/lb increments until they start to turn.
Also, only use an INCH Pound rated torque wrench during this process and "especially" during the install. You will want one that is rated from approximately 20-180 in/lbs.
Another would be that the sealant used to seat/seal the cups has failed.
You'll know a bit more once they are out. You should be able to see a crack in a cup if one exists. If there are no cracks in any cups, then my guess would be sealant failure: the cause of which could be many things to include improper amount being used at the factory or the correct amount being used but applied to the wrong surface or simply age.
Use only Loctite 620 or the Ford equivalent for the retaining compound and let it cure a minimum of 12 hours prior to installing the injectors. The bore hole cannot be too clean prior to installing the new cups. Spend extra time on this part or you may wind up doing it again. UGH! You'll also need a mirror during the cleaning process to see the rear holes. Get lots of brushes too. Consider pressure testing the newly replaced cups after the retaining compound has set-up and prior to installing the injectors.
http://www.riffraffdiesel.com/content/RESOURCES/Riffraff_Diesel_Injector_Cup_Replacement.pdf http://www.riffraffdiesel.com/content/RESOURCES/Riffraff_Diesel_7.3L_Injector_Replacement_Instruct ions.pdf : injector cup install instructions and injector install instructions respectively. Also, IF you follow the Riffraff instructions while using Clay's tool, the torque spec for installing the cups while using the tool is NOT gospel. I had to exceed it by about 20 foot/lbs to get two cups seated in an F250 about three months ago and this was not due to a lack of cleanliness in the heads.
This would be a great time for you to decide if you want to "hot torque" the lower hold down bolts which "I" DO recommend. Additionally, I choose to exceed the factory torque spec by at least 10 in/lbs and no more than 20 in/lbs. I also remove the upper hold down bolt, clean the hole to remove all oil and use Loctite 243 to secure the upper hold down bolt. Some folks use it on the lower hold down bolt too. There may be some folks that agree with all of these steps and some that agree to some of these steps but not all. There are others who stick to factory spec on a cold engine and call it a day with success who will totally disagree with anything other than factory specs which I and many other have had mixed results/failures after following. The 'e99 in my sig is the quietest it has ever been following these steps and has maintained the quietness for 120k miles.
If you choose to hot torque, plugging in the block heater an hour or two before you complete the first crank of the engine and leaving it plugged in while the engine is running will greatly assist in getting the engine up to near full operating temperature and shorten the time required for the hot torque. Most of us that do the hot torque find that the injectors have loosened about 10-25 inch/lbs during the warm-up procedure. You can also leave the valve covers completely off during warm up and have little to no mess or simply lay them on the heads to prevent the small amount of oil that gets splattered around.
Upon initial disassembly, remove the rear most injectors first. This will cause the oil and fuel in the rails on the heads to empty mostly into those cylinders. I purge the cylinders by hand turning the engine at an extremely slow rate, about one rev per minute. This prevents a decent sized mess in the engine compartment. A word of caution: regardless of whether you hand turn the engine or use the starter to turn the engine over which I DO NOT recommend since a piston or a connecting rod could be damaged, make sure that no person or objects are near the engine and especially in the path of the oil/fuel mixture that is going to be pushed out of the heads at a high velocity and under high pressure. Also, place a sheet of plastic or cardboard on the gound under the rear of the engine to catch the oil and fuel that WILL come out. Some use a Mighty Vac or equivalent to remove the majority of the liquid prior to hand turning the engine. Once the injectors are installed, the 42-pin connector is still not connected, and while the glow plugs are still out, I then use the stater to turn the engine over for about 20-30 seconds X3 which completes the final purge and then install the glow plugs. You will know that the cylinders are purged when the is no longer a white-ish mist coming out or the glow plug holes. This also greatly assists in purging air out of the high pressure oil system while making the engine easier to turn for the starter. If followed, you should have an engine that fires up within 5-10 seconds on the first attempt instead of the normal 3-5 times at 30 seconds each. You'll also purge the remaining air in about a 5-10 mile run instead of the ususal 30-50 miles = time and fuel savings.
BTW, this is a really good time to put fresh new "OEM only" glow plugs in. Do not use the cheap NAPA, AZ, AA, O'Reilly, etc plugs as the tips on them can expand which can/will require the removal of the heads to get them out if it does happen.
A coolant flush is also in order at this time. You may consider upgrading to an ELC, I use Rotella "Concentrated" from Tractor Supply @ $17/gal, which requires less maintenance and cost in the long run, while following the Gooch procedure at this point. You'll also need about 30-35 gallons of DISTILLED water @ about .80 cents per gallon at Wal-Mart.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/9...ml#post8935201
Replacing injector o-rings, Alliant only, would also be a very good idea now. Most of us would not do this job without replacing them.
....