Hey guys. I'm going to be swapping out my Hedman long tubes for a Cliffy shorty set. The cliffy is used and in good shape, no rust. I plan to wrap them with lava wrap for heat prevention/reduction. But my question is: Should I paint them with a nice high-temp paint before I wrap them? What are the pros/cons? I don't see the use of doing so, but wanted to hear what the FTE gang thought. Thx.

 

Conventional wisdom is that wrapping headers will lead to premature failure. Wrapping headers voids pretty much every manufacturers' warranty, so whether or not the conventional wisdom is true the folks who make headers strongly disapprove. Maybe look into Jet-Hot or another ceramic coating for heat reduction.

 

The header wraps just sucks! It causes headers to rust out quicker and also causes cracking.But if you have to use it then yes paint the headers first. It won't save the headers but may make them last a little longer. I've seen where wrapped headers develop an exhaust leak and the wrap was removed and the header tube was just gone.

If you want to control heat with headers then Ceramic coating is the best option. But very spendy, which also sucks. I've seen test done on a engine dyno testing coated and uncoated headers. And the temp difference was massive ( over 500 degrees less with coated headers ) .

I personally consider any header that gets wrapped to be a sacrificial header. But when getting a header coated isn't an possibility you don't have a whole lot of other options.

 

Man, you guys are just full of good news. Thinking over options--and I just refuse to pay $500 to have headers ceramic coated--I wonder if anyone has taken sets of the efi manifolds, and made a 3x2 set, like others have done with the oem intake. That would be the bomb. It would, no doubt, be the 3&4 cylinders that would be the issue.

 

Having them coated is a crap load of money. But if you figure in the reduced heat, no rust and not having to replace them unless they somehow get damaged. The price is worth it in the long run.

You could try some of the D.I.Y. ceramic coating products out there. They probably won't work as well as a professionally applied coating. But they may help some. I know eastwood tool has a internal exhaust spray. It's for coating the inside of exhaust manifolds, headers and exhaust systems. It's suppose to cut down the temp. I don't know how well it works but I bought a can to use on the exhaust system I'm building for my one van. It's spendy for spray paint but a whole lot cheaper then ceramic coating them.

Here's a link for it. https://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-hi...-w-nozzle.html

Cutting and welding cast iron can be a very tricky deal. And the exhaust manifolds see a lot more heat then a intake does. So I think it would be a lot more likely to crack.

 

count me in as far as avoiding wraps for street rides. moisture is held by the wrap and just sits directly on the metal underneath. they'll rust out a mediocre set of headers in a year or two if you're somewhere that rains. full stainless might last a little longer, but still. its for race cars that get pulled on and off a trailer, not trucks that work for a living.

best bet. have them sand blasted clean, put on a top quality header paint (following all the directions for curing) and say your prayers. those will prob last a long while (even if you just touch up the paint from time to time) for way less than 1 good ceramic coating would cost you.

also, that internal coating stuff sounds genius. I'm going to have to check that out.

 

The Eastwood stuff is hit or miss. Some of their stuff is great and some is crap. I thought for less then $30 I'd give this stuff a try. If it works, great. If it doesn't I'm not out a whole lot of cash. Their customer service on the website orders sucks though.

 

the amazon reviews are pretty informative. not terrible, but a few thoughts there to keep in mind.

 

Interesting.... I've had a set of new hedman headers on for 10 years now w/o rust or rain in S.Cal. But I certainly believe you about the rust. I'm swapping to Clifford shorty headers. With less surface area on the shorties that means less heat radiated.

Fordman: Thanks for the thoughts on the cast iron welding with the 3x exhaust manifolds. I'll read up on it. I think it would be really cool to have 3 of the efi manifolds. That would solve the heat and performance in one swoop. If it can be welded reliably. It seems simply a matter of using 3 manifolds and cutting off one runner on each set and plugging it. There is quite a bit of footage on youtube about cast welding and brazing. I know it is youtube, but I think it would be worth a shot. It would be very cool to have a 3x2 exhaust system. Of course I sold my efi set a couple of years back.

 

Since you already have the clifford shorty's I would try that eastwood stuff. You can use the stuff to coat them inside and out. On used headers they do recommend using their gel rust dissolver to clean them up first: https://www.eastwood.com/rust-remove...dissolver.html If the coating works like it's suppose to that should help eliminate the heat issue with the headers. I'm considering coating the EFI manifolds that I ported/am porting. And from what I understand keeping the heat from radiating thru the exhaust parts is suppose to be good for a little more power too.


The problem with welding cast iron isn't the welding or brazing itself. It's what needs to be done before and after. You need to preheat them and then very slowly cool them down after they are welded/brazed. I've seen guys put them on the BBQ/grill to preheat them and back on after they were welded to control the cool down. If they heat up or cool down too quickly they will end up cracking. It can be done but it's a load of work. You would end up having to move the outlets on both the front and rear manifolds to make room for the center outlet. And you've got the accessories to deal with on the front. And then you'd have to check all the clearances with the intake. Massage all the mounting flanges as needed to get it all to fit. I almost think it may just be easier adding larger outlets on the dual manifolds. But I still think you could get the stock EFI manifold outlet opened up to a 2 1/8" or maybe even 2 1/4" opening on the outlets just by porting. You would just end up with a narrower sealing surface for the exhaust pipe to seal against.

 

Hey Fordman, doing the efi's does sound like a tremendous amount of work. I think I'd rather deal with the relative ease of the cliffies I have and then solve, if needed, any heat issue.

My understanding of welding cast is that, according to Lincoln guides, is that there are two methods: One is, as you said, with a lot of heat and slow cooling. The other method is to keep the cast room temp, and heat in short bursts of less than 1" of bead, then weld in another area. With this method they require or advise a special electrode, and to go over each section of short bead with a lot of hammering. (Just as they did to weld the 300 block in that HorsePower video a few years back.) Anyway, you probably know more about it than I do. I only picked that bit up by watching some Youtube vids and a bit of google reading. The 3x efi's would, I think, make a great project if I were retired with loads of time and cash. But for now, I'll be happy with less heat and more room, along with the elimination of rattling that the Cliffy hopefully will provide.

 

I think he's refering to nickel 55 or nickel 99 rod used for arc welding.
Absolutely right about preheat and postheat, for sure. The amount of heat, the rate at which its applied, and the any postweld treatment are critical when it comes to cast. Once it reaches a certain temperature, and comes back down...the metallugical properties can change drastically. Basically changes its entire structure.

Look into iron / carbon phase diagram.

Could always get a manifold flange from fleabay and have some thicker wall tubing bent/configured for a 3x2 setup.

 

Thanks for all the good advise and knowledge from you and Fordman. And I thought I was an expert with my 20 minutes of youtube knowledge. Ha ha.