Starter engagement issues
New User
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 23
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From: Derby, Ks
Mini starter
I forgot to mention, I'm putting a hi torque starter because I'm so done with starter issues plus should be able to take out with headers installed. If the edges on faceplate are sounded or chips it will only get worse.
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: Virginia
Diagram shows top post I know, but would it make the difference if moved to the bottom? Like I said, fenderwell solenoid has to excite starter solenoid which transfers through to initiate starter bendix, would this make any difference? I’m not savvy on these starters and how they work.
The solenoid on the starter is a true solenoid. It is mechanical and it's job is to pull the lever which shoves the gear outward toward the flywheel.
The original Ford solenoid(relay) on the fender is just used for convenience, since it's already part of the Ford wiring system. All you are doing is running a 12 gauge wire down to the new starter, so it has a job to do but it's not a huge job like it used to have. It's just taking the signal from the keyswitch, and putting it down onto the new starter.
It's very important which large terminal you use on the new starter. But it's going to be difficult to get it wrong, since if you put the battery wire on the wrong terminal the starter motor will run all the time. The bottom terminal is the starter motor. The top terminal is the battery +. When the starter solenoid is activated, the plunger inside the solenoid slides back and pulls the gear out to the flywheel. Right behind the two large starter solenoid terminals is a large copper washer. When the solenoid slides back far enough it hits this copper washer, which connects the two large terminals together which then activates the starter motor.
Lead Driver
Joined: Nov 2013
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Have you determined the actual cause of the noise when the starter is engaged?
1) The end of the starter drive gear is hitting the engine side of the flywheel ring gear. In theory the starter drive gear turns as it extends aft, so the gear teeth quickly align instead of just butting into each other.
2) The centerline of the starter drive gear is too close or too far from the crankshaft centerline. This causes too much or too little clearance between the gear teeth when engaged:
Also, how did you shim the starter away from the bellhousing and flywheel? Is the shim a complete circle at the base of the starter? If not, I'm wondering if the starter could be flexing under load by bending the mount bolts.
1) The end of the starter drive gear is hitting the engine side of the flywheel ring gear. In theory the starter drive gear turns as it extends aft, so the gear teeth quickly align instead of just butting into each other.
2) The centerline of the starter drive gear is too close or too far from the crankshaft centerline. This causes too much or too little clearance between the gear teeth when engaged:
- Too much clearance lets the gear teeth jump relative to each other. This can grind off the tips of gear teeth, which makes it worse.
- Too little clearance causes binding, and can even stop the starter drive gear from moving fully aft for full engagement.
Also, how did you shim the starter away from the bellhousing and flywheel? Is the shim a complete circle at the base of the starter? If not, I'm wondering if the starter could be flexing under load by bending the mount bolts.
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Elder User
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 928
Likes: 2
Sorry for the long delay, was out of town for a couple weeks. Came back and attempted to start the truck and the starter started free spinning on me. Pulled it out and noticed the gears were worn on the starter teeth! Apparently the grinding was due to the starter gear either too small or not engaging the flywheel enough. I replaced it temporarily with a part store starter and the problem seemed to go away. Needless to say I’m unimpressed by the quality of this starter and will have to figure out how to get a replacement or refund.
Lead Driver
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 7,182
Likes: 1,174
i noticed post #23 in this similar thread:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...l#post17838058
What an amazingly well-written post that was, huh? Whoever that was, he sounds really sharp. What a swell guy. I bet he smells nice, too.
When was the last time your present engine and bellhousing were separated? Without hesitation, can you swear on a stack of Bibles that the dowel pins are present? Or does the question make you wonder, because you don't remember checking before assembly?...
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Elder User
Joined: Aug 2009
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No real updates, sent my motorcraft starter in for warranty, been using a different brand of parts store starter with no major problems. Just couldn’t believe the motorcraft was so out of spec, and had to shim to get it to work.
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Elder User
Joined: Aug 2009
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Dowel puns were all present last time the engine was rebuilt, engine plate is in good condition, and while I had the motorcraft starter on I was able to move the starter inwards towards the flywheel a bit, but not enough to give good positive engagement. I actually had to move the nose come in a considerable amount.
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Elder User
Joined: Aug 2009
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Motorcraft starter #2 lasted a bit longer before it’s grinding fit. Just yesterday it started by doing a “free spin” where it seemed to be rubbing against something but not engaging, I had to push start it. And just last night it engaged and seemed to pop out of engagement while cranking. Now it’s hot or miss if it engages, but I have to leave it idling or park in a hill, which neither is fun. For now, I’ll put the auto parts store starter back on, for some reason, it’s given me no problems. I’m half tempted to sit down with my mic and measure every detail between the two.
I do know when when I loosen the bolts on the starter, it can be moved ever so slightly towards or away from the flywheel, and maybe the torque from the starter is “pushing” itself away? I can definitely look into it using Prussian blue like the others suggested, but not being able to physically see what’s going on to see what exactly each one of these noises are is a pain. I believe the days are numbered before I have to pull the flywheel and put on a new tooth ring.
I do know when when I loosen the bolts on the starter, it can be moved ever so slightly towards or away from the flywheel, and maybe the torque from the starter is “pushing” itself away? I can definitely look into it using Prussian blue like the others suggested, but not being able to physically see what’s going on to see what exactly each one of these noises are is a pain. I believe the days are numbered before I have to pull the flywheel and put on a new tooth ring.
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 819
Likes: 50
From: North Westren Missouri
I am running the same engine, transmission and have had the same problem, but not the same type of starter. https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...er-issues.html
just use a spacer and a longer top bolt with a lock nut on it. You dont even have to measure anything and its works. If you are interested in trying it just inbox me.
just use a spacer and a longer top bolt with a lock nut on it. You dont even have to measure anything and its works. If you are interested in trying it just inbox me.
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Elder User
Joined: Aug 2009
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I’m definitely open to suggestions. I followed that thread and I’m currently at the point where I elongated the bottom bolt hole to rotate the starter further inward, so far so good, and now I know this is the problem. I’m wondering how long my hack is gonna last.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 819
Likes: 50
From: North Westren Missouri
Sounds like you have a plan. I used the crescent shaped opening (Between the outside of the starter and the bellhousing) to install a soft metal spacer while the top and bottom bolts were loose. Then slighty pryed from the bottom of the crescent opening and insert a soft metal spacer into the gap. The spacer was a 3/4 coppe T hammered flat and folded.
please take note on prying probably less then 5 ft lbs is needed. I think the longer top bolt with a lock nut also helps keep the starter from moving.
please take note on prying probably less then 5 ft lbs is needed. I think the longer top bolt with a lock nut also helps keep the starter from moving.
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Elder User
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 928
Likes: 2
Is it worth asking why the motorcraft starter sits so far away from the flywheel? I’d keep putting on generic parts store starters except for the fact that I’d like to think the motorcraft to be of better design or performance.
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