New to the forum, have read lots on here.... i havent been able to find anything post 2012 about PMM coolant filters... i bought a PMM kit around 2015, and cant find them anywhere online, look very similar to XDP Kit. i havent installed it on the truck, but my truck is just about done with studs, ect.... and want to put a coolant and oil bypass on... either put the PMM coolant on, with a sinister Bypass or just order the sinister coolant and Bypass filters and dump my PMM coolant filter kit..... need some info and anything helps.. thanks!

 

I=The best coolant filter on the market is made by IPR. Its a full flowing design and uses 3/4" hoses in and out.
The best way to use the filter is to also buy the manifold that attaches to the oil cooler itself.

This filter will actually clean your cooling system where every bypass filter made is pretty useless.

 

What's your concern with the PMM kit?

im unfamiliar with the name, but if the manifold will accept standard coolant filters, I would install it and go.

 

I respectfully disagree unless it’s installed in the heater line. Considering the amount of debris I just observed caught in the intake port of the oil cooler, using the IPR filter which is installed after the oil cooler will only catch only what makes it through the cooler.

A better approach would be to use the full flowing filter in the heater circuit. It’s still is going to be only a partial “full flow” as it is in the post oil cooler application since not all the coolant moved by the water pump is ever filtered, but it has a better chance to catch the larger materials that would lodge in the cooler intake.

The IPR purchase is an expensive way to go. All they are doing is buying a China made oil filter and using it in a coolant situation from what I can see. You could buy a 3/4” oil filter base and the filter from eBay and do better financially as well as in filtering.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Reusable-Oi...97.m4902.l9144

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Transdapt-1...97.m4902.l9144

 

My concern with the PMM is quality... I read some guy bashing PMM and just don't want to through a ****ty coolant filter on my truck after putting $6500 into it...
and not being able to find the company online anymore is a little unnerving..

sinister at least has a face, but if peoples PMM coolant filters haven't been having issues ill use that.

 

Ok here was my experience with coolant filters

I bought my current truck with bad head gaskets and a dirty cooling system. I threw on my Sinister coolant filter from prior truck and put some miles on the truck. Had some fine material in the filters but not much. I did some flushing before getting engine repaired and had a ton of debris come out a low effort flush.

I opted to give the IPR filter a try along with the manifold. Within 200 miles it was plugged with stuff that the bypass wouldn't catch if you put it in the 5/16 hose or whatever the pin hole sized hoses they throw on those things.

I was cleaning the IPR filter almost daily for a while and this was after a couple thousand miles with the bypass filter on the truck.
That's when I deemed those filters: "" Fell Good Purchase Item"" Because thats the only thing ANY AND ALL of the bypass coolant filters actually do.

It does not matter what manufacturer stamps their company logo onto the filter body, every single one that's ever been made will do the same exact thing: NOTHING.
You will catch very small debris and metal particles with these bypass filters but that is the only thing you will ever catch by using them.

They are much better at giving the owner a feeling of security and the satisfaction that you are doing something positive regarding the cooling system.
But the reality couldn't be further from the truth.

First off the bypass filters are all connected to the highest part of the cooling system @ upper heater hose and then again to the 1/4" return to coolant tank top of radiator.
The coolant is moving very slow in the locations and any debris with any weight to it has fallen away back down to lower levels LONG before coming close to its inlet line.


Basically these filters are not moving enough liquid to lift debris into its draft. The bigger the material becomes to sooner it falls away and takes the route where fluids are actually moving. Compounding this problem is the 3/32" restriction disc that is placed in the inlet side of the filter itself. Of coarse the reason the manufacturer has put a restricted orifice into the filter is because the paper/organic filter pleats would fail from the velocity of fluid passing through it. Then would wind up in the engines cooling system itself. Take a look at that teeny tiny hole in the inlet of those coolant filters.
It make absolutely no difference on the manufacturer of that filter they are all the same configuration.

As for the location of the filter being plumbed in at the heater hoses is fine and it may be better location then the outlet from oil cooler. But its not moving at the same GPM as the oil coolers flow circuit and was one of the reasons I went with the manifold.
In a perfect world Ford/Int would have put a connection prior to engines oil cooler but that's a big no chance there.
Most of the debris has taken lots of rides through the oil cooler and my thoughts are that not one single piece of debris is going to plug the oil coolers but more like lots of them until they pile up enough to have negative affects.

The flow at the oil cooler circuit is high and its constant as well. With the manifold installed that debris gets one shot through the oil cooler and its all done because it's not coming back around.
The other reason I went this option was so I could backflush the oil cooler at full tilt with a 3/4" hose so easy its funny.
These are the reasons why I chose to go with this setup.

I also made a mount to locate it in the same spot as the bypass filters so I don't loose coolant when cleaning the filter.

The IPR filter has its short comings and I had some issues with flow rates. He used a anti siphon seal that actually would cover the outlet ports as the rubber lost it's concave shape. I saw it because of climbing oil temps. I pulled the umbrella out of it and installed a o-ring into mine and saw 5* drop in my Delta temps.
Had several conversations with Vince about it but didn't get any admission to a problem.
Fast forward 4 years and they all have O-rings today in them.

I do like the alternative parts you listed Jack, that is the exact filter body for sure. Which is a pretty good setup in my opinion. That is a great way to do a coolant filter for the truck SLYLUCAS14 !!!!!

Honestly that is the setup to go with right there. Don't forget to send Jack a check for the research and locating of the parts.
I am assuming it has the same SS filter screen inside in it, if thats correct by all means put that on your tuck.
Do NOT waste your money on a bypass coolant filter, believe me its a waste of your money and what box its in means nothing.

How you plumb it in is your prerogative, I do really like the IPR manifold myself. But it also has the problem of reducing flow to the oil cooler and EGR cooler if you have one if filter gets plugged. If you use the manifold you just need to maintain it.

Alrighty I'm done here lol need more coffee and then its back to flattening my chair cushion so I can screw off my last day off on my duff.

 

thanks your opinion! @ Mhatlen

 

My uneducated guess is that most of the manifolds are casted and machined from some place other than here, and each supplier specifies a different powdercoating color on it.

I can't tell you if PMM will be any better or worse than any other brand. If it's installed adjacent to the radiator, it is not hard to change out if it gives you problems down the road. Some guys have run the filter for a bit and then removed it to eliminate a couple additional leak points.

 

Keep in mind guys, those little bypass filters with the little hole have been used on big trucks for 30 years,millions of trucks all over the world,so someone has done some research. Heres why it works,over time the water gets filtered not fast not all in a hundred miles but over time, but they was installed from the factory so a new block,heads ect . Now comes a older block with a oil cooler filter and cant get the stuff out so we flush and flush,add this and that then lets filter this so it dont happen again,good idea but wrong outlook,we want it all filtered this week so my new oil cooler dont stopup no more,great but the intentions of that little holed filter was made to filter over time,thousands of miles. If you want faster filtering you go bigger flow, so realy trying to play catch up on a bad design from the getgo, but lets not blame that little filter,it has its place researched by every truck manufacture in the world with millions behind it not justa few with a 6.0 ford.

 

My understanding was the big boys had more of a use of the coolant "filter" as a means of keeping up the SCA level in a convenient manner, more then for the filtering results. But depending on the perspective and the motors traits, you could proportion more of the approach one way or the other. The 6.0 may be rather unique in the ability of the oil cooler clog so easily.

I've got the coolant filter on my 6.0 that I used on the 7.3. Of course with the 7.3 there was a need for SCA supplemental charging, but the 7.3 was also setup with a coolant "filter" in mind. I believe on the Nav truck installed units there was a base for the filter cast into the front cover, and some Ford owners I thought changed over to that cover or at least thought about it.

But the 7.3 installed in the Ford applications were provisioned for it to some extent, and many of us pulled the plug from this port and adapted in a coolant filter, with an SCA charge or bare. It was at a high pressure area so it most likely had good flow despite the size of the plumbing. I could have gone larger in hose size, but with the restriction in the filter thought it was sufficient. But the worry of the oil cooler wasn't present with the 7.3.












Of course the 6.0 never had that provision, mostly due to the intent of no silicate coolant in the Nav application. Ford didn't get the memo as we know. There are some who install a supplemental head flow kit to prevent boiling, and while the 6.0 front cover has no provisions for fittings, the kit and the people adapting it have drilled and tapped into the same pre-T/S position to divert the flow. An enthusiast could always do he same to mimic the 7.3 design.

I have no idea which has a higher degree of flow, the pathway from the oil cooler to EGR cooler or the heater core pathway, never saw any data about it and don't know who might that's a current enthusiast. Maybe I just didn't get that memo, but I won't know by presumption.

The reason I think the heater core path would be better (no close off valve) is although the volume of flow may be lower (If it is), at least I have a chance of catching a percentage of the large particles before they get stopped by the oil cooler. Filtering post oil cooler doesn't give me that.

This higher flow 30 micron cleanable filter may do it's job better then the existing setup I have. While I know its early use was somewhat effective, the latest inspection showed no issues. But of course I now know the large particles got caught in the oil cooler, which I would expect, the design shouldn't allow small particles to get caught. But the major issue over the years was getting "slimed" as we've unfortunately found.

Anyway, I worked in R&D. There aren't any absolutes, just different ways, and we can all choose based on our viewpoints.

 

We was pouring sca in the early days out of a bottle then the charged filters come along and no more need to since the charged filters allowed so much sca over a longer period of time.

 

I still may have a charged filter here somewhere. Maybe I tossed it. I gotta learn to toss at 15. Well, except the wife.

 

That is correct that there are tons of trucks with that bypass filter on them that use the filter with the 3/32" hole in them. I do engine service on countless fire pumps that use diesel drivers and I see them on quite a few of those. Almost all of the Cummins engines have them built directly into their cooling systems and mounted on the blocks with direct feed along with factory shut off valves for servicing them.

For small materials they work fine but if you have any particles of any size and weight they don't make it into these bypass filters on the 6.0 configuration they are tied into to.
I bought a Sinister coolant filter and it was used for 58,000 miles on my first truck and the only thing I ever saw was fine metal. Was the same results on my current truck first few thousand miles. But then I did a cooling system flush and I pushed a lot of large particles out of my drivers side block hole.
After seeing that I was very discouraged with the bypass filter and bought the IPR and its manifold. It was immediately loading up with debris and I was cleaning the filter at times two weeks apart.
I sent my truck in to have my engine repaired and upgraded with a fresh valve job and o-ringed heads being I bought the truck with head gasket issues and a poorly maintained cooling system with Fords moldy Gold stuff in it @ 41,000 miles...?. Hine sight 20/20 and all I still paid too much for the thing even after them providing a full truck warranty at no cost to close the sale. Anyways I also had the shop do a complete cooling system flush to get the cooling system clean. But after getting the truck back I was still loading up the coolant filter with garbage. That didn't pan out.

So I did a extensive flush with both block drains open with likely several thousand gallons of water run through the cooling system with engine running. After I was no longer catching anything in my buckets from the block I buttoned it up and filled with CAT EC1 coolant.

That was 3-1/2 years ago and another 20,000 miles or so and I see almost nothing in the coolant filter today. But I likely wont pull the filter setup off my truck at any point because I see it as a insurance policy as well as a cooling system health indicator.
The filter catches casting sand today along with cast iron fine fragments. When I see my Delta temps climb to 6-7 degrees I know its time to dip it in acid and wash out.

I'm 100% sold on the full flowing design whether its IPR or the setup off of eBay that Jack located there is no comparison between the two designs. My bypass filter completely let me down and gave me no indications whatsoever that my cooling system had loads of debris in it. Soon as I installed the IPR filter later it was grabbing garbage immediately.
The best thing about the manifold off the outlet side of the oil cooler was that it was a snap for back-flushing my oil cooler. I had a designated hose on that outlet the entire time I did the flush.
I have also seen two 6.0 owners that purchased the manifold and filter and then backflush oil coolers that were in the 20-25* degree Delta ranges back to 4-7* ranges. I know that this is not always possible by any means if there is hard calcium buildup inside of the cooler. But if its debris that can get dislodged as for these guys it absolutely can be done. One of them on a different forum Sparkyf250 still has his new oil cooler on a shelf in his shop.

I also feel that the tee connection that is tied in to the heater hose on top of pass side either is too low of flow to carry debris to that height or that the flow that comes with the 1/4" or 3/8" hoses supplied with the bypass filters isn't enough to pull in any larger debris. Because with well over 55,000 miles of use I NEVER saw any of it in the spin on filters of mine.

If anyone has had different results I am all ears and would love to see some data on it.
From what I saw using them on my two trucks my opinion of the bypass flters is lower than LOW.
What sealed their fate was watching the full flow setup pull it in like a vacuum cleaner after pulling off the bypass. Did absolutely NOTHING else.

So thats what I know about the two different designs that are available on the market today.
Anytime I see a thread inquiring about what to buy in regards to a coolant filter I try to tell what I have experienced with the two options.
I feel that if someone is going to spend hard earned cash they should get something that does what they intend them to do. A feel good mindset does not justify getting what you paid for in my mind. Which is exactly all I was getting out of mine which was made by Sinister, that said they are all the same only pretty colors and different options are different.

The only thing I liked about the bypass units was their location that they mounted under the hood.

Here are a few pics of what I made to put my IPR in that same location.
I used 1" aluminum material to take up the slack of the OEM stud hanging out of the front frame for radiator that the bypass units use.
Then I countersunk the holes so hands could not snag on the fasteners while twisting off filter assy.


Another shot


Oil Cooler output coolant flow manifold that comes out of the oil cooler itself then to filter and then back again to the EGR Cooler.
This is what can also be used to very easily backflush your oil cooler so easy that its ridicules.


A picture of it mounted


Another angle of it back to manifold.
Today I have my 3/4" hoses both in expandable loom along with 1-1/8 split plastic loom under Hot Side CAC pipes only.
It is prettier and what drove the change BTW



It still works like a champ but in all honesty I would have a hard time spending the $350.00 that the IPR unit goes for. I would be hard pressed not to just buy what TooManyToys Jack has listed from eBay for under $100.00. The actual filter housing itself looks to be EXACTLY what is on the IPR unit. Now you still need to buy 3/4" NPT X 3/4" hose barb fittings and the Oil Cooler manifold That Vince sells at IPR itself. I believe that was around $60.00 IIRC.

One more shot



Alright Fellas I wasted waaaay too much time on this at this point. But that said I truly and honestly believe its the only wise choice to make from everything I went through. I have no skin in this filter design whatsoever. In fact I think that Vince with IPR is a dodgy character that would not admit a issue when he had a problem with the filter early on. Which was a anti-siphon gasket he developed to keep coolant from running out of his manifold when cleaning the filter. His big umbrella was rolling back and covering up the return ports which was reducing gpm in the filter and causing higher Delta temps in 10-12* after just installing a new one. But even still Vince is a smart guy who has made the best coolant filter money can buy and thats fact. All those fancy anodized colors the bypass filters come in don't do nothin. Which IMHO is exactly the same with the bypass filter itself as well.



Yikes...............where's the Tylenol

 

mhatlen:

1st it would be nice to be your neighbor...

2nd: there are a ton of folks that don't run any coolant filter and just believe a thorough flush as part of routine cooling system maintenance, is just as good as a coolant filter (I'm not in that camp).

3rd: Back 10 or 12 years ago a Member here (think he is long gone) named Beachbumcook put a DieselSite bypass coolant filter on and documented the results in a thread here. Unfortunately the pics from that thread are gone, but here is a link to dieselsite's coolant filter and the pictures of the casting sand captured are Jeff's. Back then it was an eye opener...

http://www.dieselsite.com/2003-20076...waterpump.aspx

So, while your point about not being able to capture Large particles with a bypass filter is true -- There are a number of folks that have removed finer particles, which are also harmful to the system and could clog a cooler, wear a pump impeller, etc., and have posted pictures of the crap caught in those filters.

They do work.

I myself plan to flush my system out the block drains when I do flush it again, but for me, the IPR full flow system is overkill...

I think any coolant filter is better than none, and flushing the 6.0 coolant system is mandatory, unless you want to replace oil coolers...

Scott

 

Mark,

I was going to do the same plumbing as you did, which is why I had them tabbed in eBay, and asked IPR which of the two manifolds which they have pictures of they were now shipping. I contemplated doing the backflush as you state too. But the particles I just found in my recent cooler, and how embedded they are in the passages where I don’t think back flushing will clear, has me changing my mind.

Again we both have opinions, either or both right, and I think whatever anyone wants to do is better then stock.

IPR sells the entire setup for $250, I think it can be done for around $100, but just not 100% that I can bring those ports out to 3/4”. If not, more hunting will be needed. Maybe a Moroso or Hamberger adaptor.