Well, despite my doing a complete timing rebuild and replacing both VCT solenoids, my truck is still ticking like a wannabe diesel. My concern is that something internal is wearing out or otherwise going bad. The only thing I haven't done is to replace the cam phasers as the originals still appeared to be in good condition.

My wife drove it today in 97 degree heat, and it was ticking more loudly than I thought it should. I didn't have my phone with me at the time, but I do have an older video from a couple weeks ago. Can anyone shed any light as to whether there's something else I need to fix, or if my engine is just slowly marching to its death and will need replacement in the next year or so? Thanks!

 

recommended to be replaced during timing job . The rollers wear down and cams start gouging them . The lash adjusters fill up with junk carbon and cause roller failures .
Mine was so bad at 130k that it threw one of no 8 intake rollers to the side . The lashes seize and once that well fills up they no longer cushion the cam lobe . They are flaky to test as you work the carbon out of them , I changed all L/R for oem $265.
Of course the phasors work very hard and OEM is expensive but worth the little difference to aftermarket .
You can change phasors with just the valve covers off . If you had broken guides the plastic is in the oil pu screen , drop the pan and pull tube and clean it . Low oil pressure causes a lot of damage .
This engine uses dirty engine oil to hydraulically control cams . The PCM uses electric pulses to VCTS to release oil to phasors . Cam sensors feed back to PCM to track cams . Low oil pressure or dirty oil is very bad as the vcts have screens and small passages in engine clog . Varnish jams VCTS .
Change oil often, use MC filters . I use a little marvel M oil .

 

Sorry to read that you are still having issues. I got slammed for it in your original thread, but at some point there are so many issues that contribute to phaser issues, I feel that engine replacement is the best course of action. At least you'll have an engine with a warranty. These engines have several issues which cause low oil pressure that causes phaser noises. Almost everyone who fixes noises has it come back at some point. It's so much work to go into these engines. I spent the money up front knowing, that if this engine needs repair, it won't be me doing it.

 

It is people who cut corners and fail to understand these engines . You can't not replace phasors because they are expensive . New trucks are very very expensive . Yes ford screwed these engines up but they are fixable . If you don't learn and do the work on them its going to be a vicious circle .
Plastic should not be used on engine internal parts unless backed by metal . Old ratcheting tensioners with out seals are much better .
Small size lash adjusters and weak rollers with a poor performing oil system . Including an idiot gauge for oil pressure . Vcts that wouldn't varnish up and quit , perhaps a better oil filter system . It's not nice that the full timing job oem parts are $1400 . The access including that power steering mount could have been designed a lot better . Getting inside that timing cover should not be that hard .
A new reman engine is going to bring you right back here unless you address the fixes . No extended oil changes , use full syn oil , don't keep those plugs in there more than 60k . If over 100k consider changing injectors . Clean those cop connectors , torque plugs in 25 to 28 psi . Study changing plugs and do it right .
It's not like the new cars don't have problems some have 4 phasors and troublesome turbos .

 

I didn't change out the phasers only because they were still functional and I only had so much of a budget for this repair. I'm planning on replacing them in the fall, regardless of condition, as a preventative measure. I've been using Castrol GTX high mileage oil, but will be changing to Royal Purple next change.

What I really need is for this truck to get me along for at least another 2 years... After that, I'll either put in a new engine, or I'll trade it for a newer truck. (which may or may not be another Ford... This is the first time they've burned me, but it's enough of one for me to consider a different brand) Apparently the link I posted didn't embed properly, but if you review my original post, there is a video of the engine noise. I've learned a lot about this engine, but my primary reason for posting was to find out if my engine is truly boned. -Also worth noting, the sound only occurs after the truck warms up, not immediately after starting.

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I understand having to cut it off at some point . A reman is very expensive and a lot of parts move over . To many dealers just say you need a new engine . It is true that if you don't do a lot of it your self it's too expensive .
If you are near 100k or more a lot has to be replaced in order to not go back in .
I agree 2 years is reasonable time goal ,mine is 150 k for a total of 280k . I think most vehicles are lucky to hit 300k . But I tow and make it work so that's reasonable for me, as I never hot rod it ,no mudding . .
I only believe in constructive posts . I did defend the engine as some people do cut too many corners . We get a real kick out of it when we talk a novice through a timing rebuild and he struggles but it purrs in the end . Especially when you know the budget is tight and they need this for work . Saving thousands versus a reman ,plus they really learn what to do with this engine .
Phasors work so hard we discourage aftermarket as it seems to not work out .
You are the reverse ,most replace the phasors only and then have to go back in shortly . I never tore my phasors apart ,mine were the old style with the big spring ,I have seen many pictures of internal pins and vanes broken as well as the main pin to the cam .
Oil flow is a big problem ,dirty oil is the main culprit . It's not that the oil loses the lube quality its that the carbon blocks the small ports and screens .I do use full syn and some guys on here cry when I dump it early . I use a little marvel mystery oil and change often . One of the best guys on here has a routine of adding motor flush the night before oil change, running for the 5 minutes and leaving it soak until morning . I would not do this on a real dirty engine as I did this before my tear down and it acted up worse as I expected . But as a routine it may be my ticket . I always preload my oil filter now too .
I was very mad at ford for a long while, but it was the accountants/government caused this poor engine performance . But overall I like my truck . I just wish there was a better filter system and better plastic guides for the ones that break .

 

@Montana_Rig

Sorry to hear your results are less than perfect. I have read back over prior posts including listening to your original AND latest video. I was initially going to lay a little 'blame' at the feet of your mechanic's feet for (seemingly fairly easily) going along with the decision to not replace phasers. (Because they 'looked' OK) But, all is not lost and all the things you did (at 135,000 miles) were a definite positive step. Chains just simply ware out. 135k is maybe on the low end, but anywhere from 135 to 200k they were going to need to be replaced or they will flop around and smash guides to bits or jump time like @redfishtd points out. So you did NOT waste your money.

Listening to the video, what you have done didn't nail the noise source. IMO, there only two sources in the upper end from which that 'throaty' 'clack' can come from - (that would appear when operating temp is reached, and disappear when RPMs elevate). One being the thrust bearing on the CAMSHAFT - if a roller follower was not running true and working the camshaft 'Forward' and 'Backward' as the cam lobe pushes on the roller. The other being the vanes or locking pin in the Phaser. Either one transmits the sound through the camshaft.

Fortunately - any of the above can be fixed from the Top Side without having to remove the front cover again. I think I would invest in a good stethoscope with a metallic probe and GO AT FINDING the source of the clack. Even try with it idling with valve covers removed (as messy as that would get) and make sure you don't have a roller fixing to burp out of there like @redfishtd did.

Just know - you still have a bunch of guys on your side, and so the DAMN FORD isn't going to win.

 

Yeah, I'm thinking there's definitely more that needs to be done before this <expletive deleted> engine runs proper. Cam phasers are on my to-do list for fall, or possibly sooner depending on how bad off the engine is running.

As I mentioned in my original post, the sound has gotten louder, to the point where my wife who is not at all mechanically inclined noticed it and called to ask me if it was still safe to drive because she could tell it was a louder/differenot tone. I was able to take a recording of the new and most-definitely-not-improved ticking noise. After reviewing the below video, can anyone give me an idea how long can I safely drive it without ruining my engine? I'm not trying to go until the last possible second before repairs, I just won't have the time to commit to repair work for another few weeks.

 

I just talked to the Ford dealer about my 2009 F150 5.4L that has a noticeable tick from the bottom of the engine while under load, experiences occasional loping, and has the check engine light come on intermittently. Within 90 seconds of looking at my truck, he told me it was the cam phasers.

Instead of scheduling a repair job worth thousands, he told me to switch to 5W-50 (the same oil they use in the 5.4L supercharged V8-GT engine). He claims that a local company has an entire fleet of the same truck, many of which had the same issue. They switched to 5W-50 and have more than 350K on their units. I’m going to take his advice and make the switch. He could have easily milked me for a phaser/solenoid/timing chain/etc. Instead, he provided an alternative that I’m hopeful will address the problem. I’ll let you know how it goes . . .

 

What I think this guy neglected to explain to you is that in a 2009 model, depending on how many miles it has, the steel chains ware and 'stretch' to the point the tensioners can no longer push the chain slack out of them. Have a few misfires (which these trucks are prone to if you run plugs 100,000 miles), and you'll have chain guides _smashed_ to bits and plugging up your oil pickup tube. That will create low oil pressure symptoms and you'll develop chain slap against the inside of the timing cover - or worse yet, timing chain jumping a tooth or two.


Not trying to be 'Negative Nelly', but if this is the scenario - a timing job is just around the corner under best of circumstances. No harm in your trying his experiment - but if I'm guessing right, you can run wheel bearing grease in it for motor oil and it isn't going to help.

 

Wow, that's amazing advice. Thanks for sharing your comprehensive knowledge with me, F150Torqued.

I had no idea what the ticking might be, so I was relieved to learn that a timing job might fix it. Not cheap, but better than a crate motor.

My truck’s a 2009, but it has only 90K miles. I'm going to run the heavy oil for a couple of changes knowing that I'm going to have to get some cash together over the next few months for a timing job.

Thanks again for your insight.

 

@kyle-wpg-mb
Your additional information (90K miles) changes my 'immediate' opinion somewhat. Enough I would be hopeful that 'chain stretch' should not be an issue at this point. Steel chains should reasonably last 180k - 220k miles, provided there are not other issues in play. Mine went 212k and I tried heavier oils for off for a while before doing my timing job.


Heaver weight oil will 'generally speaking' soften any noise. But as far as phaser noise, there is a point of diminishing return. Don't go add Lucus or Motor Honey with 0W-40 or 5w-50. There are screens in the VCT Solenoids and the VCT Solenoid valve bodies to keep junk from reaching the phasers. They are VERY fine screens, and I observed (through live OBDII monitoring), a definite slowing of Phaser reaction time to the PCM's retard / advance command. If that gets too long - you will get an over-retard or over-advance DTC code.


Sounds (like 'tick' 'clack' 'knock' 'dieseling') are hard to communicate with words - and they are hard to pin-point the way they transmit through metal parts. But Phasers are common spots (I believe that is the source in the above video). The lash adjusters and roller/followers are another common source. But in either of those two cases - a little thicker oil can help. I ran 0w-40 in mine for a while before I broke down and did the timing job at 212k.


Meanwhile - do good maintenance and keep it from developing misfires under light load. That's more destructive than many realize. Don't run plugs 100k.


Good luck

 

The ticking noise has progressed to the point where I can hear it from inside the cab with the windows up. Plus, previously it was only audible at idle, but this morning I heard it while driving at about 35 MPhil. Never in the almost 2 years I've owned it have I been able to hear the ticking either from inside the cab or at anything above idle.

As much fun as it is throwing money and time at this engine, I need to look at whether any further work is going to be worth doing, or if I should just throw in a new engine and start fresh. Knowing what I know now about these bloody engines, I'm confident I could keep a reman running right proper until whenever I decide to sell it. I think the biggest thing I've had working against me is the utter lack of proper maintenance by the truck's previous owner... I've basically been playing catch up ever since I bought this money pit... er, I mean truck. Lots of neglect either through ignorance or lack of caring.

More than anything, I started this thread to figure out whether this is something I can repair or if the engine is just too far gone to the point where any repairs are just a waste of money and I should just replace the whole engine and be done with it. But I also need to know if driving it like this is even possible or safe... I don't have another vehicle save for my wife's car, and she needs that on practically a daily basis so this is my only means of transportation. If it is fixable, I don't want to drive it and damage it to the point where my only option is to replace the engine. Conversely, if it's already boned and needs replacement, I don't want to just drive it then wind up stranded on the road with a blown engine.

Any input on any of the above would be greatly appreciated. I feel like I'm driving a ticking time bomb, so anything to put my mind somewhat at ease would help immensely.

 

I had a ticking noise after I changed my oil pump, chains, guides, vct solenoids, cam phasers, and the metal tensioners.
I ordered new lash adjusters, and roller followers, and recently put in new spark plugs. The engine runs like a sewing machine, 180,000 miles I am running 5 w20 motorcraft oil in it, and a motorcraft oil filter.
The cams were very lightly scarred from previously having been oil starved, evidently. It was so minimal that I considered it acceptable. (plus I was tapped out in the pocket book, so it could have been square and I would have not had a choice but to go with it at the time thank goodness it was in better than expected condition. I spent nearly $1100 dollars in all, but it was worth the piece of mind in the end. (a whole lot cheaper than a reman engine.




Runs great. I am no longer worried about the engine. My Cheap Amazon Bluetooth OBDII reader and a 5 dollar program helped lead me to two bad spark plugs, and now she just purrs. Next worry, is the transmission, whether it will hold up or not with this many miles. I am getting ready to go on a road trip pulling a Jeep through the mountains this weekend, wish me luck!

 

Could also be an exhaust leak on your manifolds for what its worth.