My friend just bought a '91 F-150 with a '93 300 inline 6, and a E340-D transmission out of a van. He got it to start one time and it chewed up the gears on the starter. He replaced the solenoid on the wheel well and the starter (which has a solenoid on it also). The starter works but it doesn't turn the motor over. It sounds like it has a load on it (not free spinning). We can turn the crank at the front and see the flywheel turn. Our next step is to pull the inspection plate off the bell housing and try to see what happens when we hit the key.
Someone suggested to shim the starter, but I'm not aware of any shims you can use on a Ford starter. We also tried the old style starter (without the solenoid)and it didn't engage the flywheel. It just was free spinning. Any suggestions?

 

You have two starter motor solenoids?

You may have the wrong starter drive if the drive gear was eaten. The drive gear is sacrificial (better than having to replace ring gear).

No shimming a FORD starter (that I ever heard of).

If the starter motor turns (fast enough) and no drive/ring gear engagement, either the starter drive is bad or blocked/frozen.

 

yeah....I've never heard of two solenoids, but the guy at o'reillys said that some years, Ford used two solenoids. The previous owner of the truck said that the flywheel is new also. By the way it sounded, I thought the crank was broken. But we turned it and saw the flywheel turn. I didn't know you could change the gear on the starter.
Thanks for your thoughts.

 

Just because I have never come across it doesn't mean it didn't happen, but I surely would like to know why...

I would think it is the wrong starter for the application. Do you have photo(s)?

 

What he said^^^

 

No pictures yet. My friend will send me some soon.I was assured that the starter is listed for '91-'93 300cid inline 6cyl. I don't have a clue why there would be two solenoids. Stand by....pics are coming through now.

 

Thank you for your input guys. I just found out that the flywheel is disconnected from the crank. When we spun the motor from the harmonic balanced, the flywheel turns. I think that is because we didn't try to hold it still. The flywheel definitely spins with the starter that has no solenoid on it. So......yes the other starter is the wrong one. Apparently when the previous owner had the flywheel replaced, they didn't use a torque wrench. If any wrench at all.
Gotta pull the tranny now.

 

Mike, good or not so good you found why the "starter problem".

Let me clear up the 2 solenoid issues.
It is not that un-common to use a newer gear reduction starter that has the solenoid on it in an older truck or car that has a solenoid on the fender well.
Most of the time the newer starter is smaller and fits better if running headers. It is also a lot lighter to lift up into place.

It is an easy re-wire to use both solenoids with the solenoid type starter.
The cable that goes to the old starter goes on the new starters large lug.
The other end of that cable gets moved to the batt cable side of the fender solenoid so it is hot all the time.
Now run a 10 ga wire from the fender solenoid that the starter cable was removed from to the small lug on the new starter solenoid.

The fender solenoid now does not have the high amp load it had with the old wiring & starter. Because of this lighter load there is less likely hood of it sticking and keeping the starter engaged.

The only other thing to keep in mind is some motors/trany/years use a starter just for the type trany used. So when buying a starter check to see if there is a starter for auto & stick tranys. They both bolt up the same and have the same wire connection but the gear drive end is different between them enough to cause issues.

Hope this helps others.
Dave ----

ps: I have a drag car (AMC) wired as above with 2 solenoids and never had any issues.

 

^^This.

The starter for an automatic is different than the starter for a manual. If you interchange them, they'll get chewed up.

 

For others and I know this is a six forum but I was told the 460 only has 1 starter but people should check to make sure.
Dave ----

 

I didn't know that about the 460, just that all small block Ford starters (300, 302, 351, etc.) differ depending on the transmission type.

 

I thought the same and when someone posted about a 460 starter issue I said auto or stick?
Then told about the 460 has 1 starter, learn something new everyday.
Dave ----

 

what is the difference? I changed out my starter (manual trans, 300) and now I’m on my 4th starter, broken nose cones and a broken Bendix. NAPA swears this is for the manual trans....

 

All Ford "small blocks" (including the 300, 289, 302, 351, etc) with an automatic use the same starter, whether C4, C6, AOD, etc.
All 157 tooth manual transmissions (T5, TR-3550, TKO 500/600, etc) ALSO use the same "automatic transmission" starter, so if you are a Ford guy (not just a Ford truck guy), this is important.
The only outlier is the 164 tooth manual transmission starter, which is often just called the "manual transmission starter" in these groups, even though it is NOT the correct starter for a 157 tooth manual trans that you might deal with in a Mustang or other car.

All automatics AND 157-tooth manuals = "automatic" starter with 4.084" diameter hole in the block plate and 3/4" ring gear depth (as measured from the block plate)
164 tooth manuals = "manual starter" with 4.130" diameter hole in the block plate and 3/8" ring gear depth (as measured from the engine block plate)

This is important info for someone like me that messes with both old Ford trucks and Mustangs. My manual 1995 Mustang starter is interchangeable with my F-100s "automatic" starter.

OP, measure the depth of the ring gear from the engine block plate. It should be 3/4" for your application. You should also be able to pull the gear out of the starter to be sure it is correct. Then measure both the size of the hole in the engine block plate and the diameter of the mounting pad (the part that mates with the block plate).

NOW, after I typed all this, I realize someone revived an old thread and I am too annoyed at that to not go ahead and post this.

@alanjmt that is an "automatic" starter NOT a "manual".

 

thanks for your help and detail, I think i followed most of that. Another nose cone destroyed last night and now I own the last of these starters in a 100 mile radius. Here are some photos of what I have. How can you tell the starter is an “automatic” ? (Which I understand would work with a 157 tooth flywheel? ) here are some pics I took this am of the flywheel depth and the current (and last) “new” starter with really crappy recast nose cone with the bendix engaged.