460 eating bendix drive
Cargo Master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,295
Likes: 25
From: NJ
I would be measuring the depth from starter mounting position to front and back of the teeth on the flexplate, and the corresponding mounting surface to engaged bendix position on the starter. Also bench test the starter and ensure the bendix is fully actuating. Also, get a newer style PMGR starter, they're much better and similar money IIRC.
You did put the load distribution ring on the rear/outisde of the flexplate? If you put it on the crank side (or any other/additional spacers or load spreaders) it would space the flexplate back at least 1/8" or so and result in less than full engagement of the teeth.
You did put the load distribution ring on the rear/outisde of the flexplate? If you put it on the crank side (or any other/additional spacers or load spreaders) it would space the flexplate back at least 1/8" or so and result in less than full engagement of the teeth.
Ford Parts Specialist
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 88,826
Likes: 784
From: Simi Valley, CA
460 A/T & M/T use the same starter (E1TZ-11002-C), but the OP may not have a 460 starter.
300/302/351W A/T starter is different than M/T
351M/400 A/T & M/T starter is the same, but it's not the same as any other engine size.
The starter drive may be wrong because 1968/97 460's used D6PZ-11350-B (replaced C6VY-11350-A), while 300/302/351M/351W/400 use different starter drives.
Cargo Master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,295
Likes: 25
From: NJ
A FE starter will bolt to a 460 but would be obvious from the third bolt hole. This is used for some conversions, typically using an FE flywheel I believe.
Since it's a chain store rebuild it could have the wrong cone on it? That's why I suggested measuring.
Since it's a chain store rebuild it could have the wrong cone on it? That's why I suggested measuring.
Ford Parts Specialist
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 88,826
Likes: 784
From: Simi Valley, CA
460 eating Bendix drive.
460 A/T & M/T starter is the same .. but the 460 M/T flywheel uses the same ring gear as 1977/82 351M/400 that has 180 teeth.
And, there are TWO DIFFERENT 460 flexplates:
1968/78 ALL, some 1979 F150/350 & Econoline: D1SZ-6375-A
Some 1979 F150/350 & Econoline (with block casting number D9TE-6015-AB) & 1980/97: D9TZ-6375-A
460 not available with 4WD & M/T until 1983. ALL 1968/82 460's have a C6.
Also see post #17.
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 38
From: EXTREME southwest CT
I would be measuring the depth from starter mounting position to front and back of the teeth on the flexplate, and the corresponding mounting surface to engaged bendix position on the starter. Also bench test the starter and ensure the bendix is fully actuating. Also, get a newer style PMGR starter, they're much better and similar money IIRC.
You did put the load distribution ring on the rear/outisde of the flexplate? If you put it on the crank side (or any other/additional spacers or load spreaders) it would space the flexplate back at least 1/8" or so and result in less than full engagement of the teeth.
You did put the load distribution ring on the rear/outisde of the flexplate? If you put it on the crank side (or any other/additional spacers or load spreaders) it would space the flexplate back at least 1/8" or so and result in less than full engagement of the teeth.
He doesn't have a *stickout* problem, he has a mesh problem....
Some other people have suggested shimming the side of the starter closest to the crank, knowing that that would kick the snout in towards the ring gear.
I couldn't bring myself to do that.
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 38
From: EXTREME southwest CT
Bill,
In post 19 you are referring to the running change to external balance being the difference between flexplates, ...correct?
I am pretty sure diameter and tooth count did not change when the weiget was installed.
In post 19 you are referring to the running change to external balance being the difference between flexplates, ...correct?
I am pretty sure diameter and tooth count did not change when the weiget was installed.
More Turbo
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 585
Likes: 11
Years ago I would sometimes encounter this problem at work. An old trick we used to do that worked really well was to replace the nine tooth starter drive with a ten tooth drive from a '85-90 Ford Escort with a 1.9 engine. Just pull the nose off the starter and swap drives. The ten tooth drive is slightly larger in diameter and would usually solve the problem.
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 38
From: EXTREME southwest CT
Years ago I would sometimes encounter this problem at work. An old trick we used to do that worked really well was to replace the nine tooth starter drive with a ten tooth drive from a '85-90 Ford Escort with a 1.9 engine. Just pull the nose off the starter and swap drives. The ten tooth drive is slightly larger in diameter and would usually solve the problem.
All of these Escort starters (and just the replacement drive gear) are listed in post #39 of my thread.
F0FZ-11350-A is 0.156" larger diameter that the original 1" gear.
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More Turbo
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 585
Likes: 11
All of those Escort starters mentioned in that post are PMGR, which use a completely different drive than the older direct drive starters and the drives are not interchangeable. I don't remember what the tooth count is on a PMGR starter, but most of the older style direct drive Ford starters used a nine tooth drive gear. The older '85-90 Escort starters used a ten tooth drive. I used to swap a lot of those in when we had clearance issues...worked like a charm.
FTE Legend
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 30,870
Likes: 4,113
From: Angier, NC
460 A/T & M/T use the same starter (E1TZ-11002-C), but the OP may not have a 460 starter.
300/302/351W A/T starter is different than M/T
351M/400 A/T & M/T starter is the same, but it's not the same as any other engine size.
The starter drive may be wrong because 1968/97 460's used D6PZ-11350-B (replaced C6VY-11350-A), while 300/302/351M/351W/400 use different starter drives.
300/302/351W A/T starter is different than M/T
351M/400 A/T & M/T starter is the same, but it's not the same as any other engine size.
The starter drive may be wrong because 1968/97 460's used D6PZ-11350-B (replaced C6VY-11350-A), while 300/302/351M/351W/400 use different starter drives.
Now over the years and the different parts that can be used to "rebuild" the starter who knows if any of that is right for his application?
Dave - - - -
Posting Guru
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,636
Likes: 5
From: Orlando area
The flex plate used in 460 (Auto trans) uses a 164 tooth ring gear and is 14.23" in diameter.
The flywheel ring gear has 180 teeth (Manual transmission) and is 15.512" in diameter.
Comparing the parts choices between a 1984 460 and a 1994 460, what is interesting is that the flex plate and flywheel ring gear teeth counts are the same (as listed above) however the starters have different tooth counts, The '84 starters have 9 teeth and the '94 starters have 10 teeth.
So for late models Ford when to the pmgr starter and added a tooth.
At least according to the aftermarket parts suppliers (such as Rock Auto).
It's not surprising that this subject is so confusing.
The flywheel ring gear has 180 teeth (Manual transmission) and is 15.512" in diameter.
Comparing the parts choices between a 1984 460 and a 1994 460, what is interesting is that the flex plate and flywheel ring gear teeth counts are the same (as listed above) however the starters have different tooth counts, The '84 starters have 9 teeth and the '94 starters have 10 teeth.
So for late models Ford when to the pmgr starter and added a tooth.
At least according to the aftermarket parts suppliers (such as Rock Auto).
It's not surprising that this subject is so confusing.
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 38
From: EXTREME southwest CT
One should note how far from the crank centerline *the starter centerline is* in both a C6 and the 460 hydraulic bell from 1983-1988 (or whenever they went from T-19 to Zf-5 with its integral bell)
I bet there is a .641 difference.
Do you think the Zf bell changed in 1992 when Ford started installing PMGR starters?
I bet there is a .641 difference.
Do you think the Zf bell changed in 1992 when Ford started installing PMGR starters?
Posting Guru
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,636
Likes: 5
From: Orlando area
According the engine builders on the 460 and 429-460 forums, the blocks did not change (other than deck heights). And when you buy a SFI or aftermarket bell housing there is not a different part for an early and late model 460.
This is tough one to answer. Maybe Ford just realized there were meshing/wear issues in the early years and deicide to fix it by adding a tooth to the starter
This is tough one to answer. Maybe Ford just realized there were meshing/wear issues in the early years and deicide to fix it by adding a tooth to the starter
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 38
From: EXTREME southwest CT
According the engine builders on the 460 and 429-460 forums, the blocks did not change (other than deck heights). And when you buy a SFI or aftermarket bell housing there is not a different part for an early and late model 460.
This is tough one to answer. Maybe Ford just realized there were meshing/wear issues in the early years and deicide to fix it by adding a tooth to the starter
This is tough one to answer. Maybe Ford just realized there were meshing/wear issues in the early years and deicide to fix it by adding a tooth to the starter
Deck height changed *twice* and with the advent of external balance (D9TE blocks) the cylinder liners were were longer for more piston support at BDC.
Of course this means a late crank can be used in an early block but an internal crank cannot be used in a post '79 block.
But what does a block have to do with starter mounting?
Or the centerline of a bellhousing?
Was there an auto offered that didn't have an integral bell? (I think the only options were C6 and E4OD)
So, same starter, different centerline.... until the advent of gear reduction starters that had a solenoid instead of a bendix.