460 eating bendix drive
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460 eating bendix drive
new here sorry if I put this in the wrong place. need help. 1986 f250 460 with a c6 new flex plate 164 teeth as sold by autozone new starter with 9 tooth Bendix. problem is the starter is barely engaging the teeth on flex plate Bendix is fully extending. its like the starter is to far away (I'm told that's not possible). ty in advance for the help!
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Joined: Nov 2015
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From: Angier, NC
Sorry a little late.
Any way the flex plate was put on wrong?
Another guess is wrong starter, from what I have seen posted they make 1 for autos and 1 for stick tranys.
Number on box may be right but wrong one in box.
Dave ----
Any way the flex plate was put on wrong?
Another guess is wrong starter, from what I have seen posted they make 1 for autos and 1 for stick tranys.
Number on box may be right but wrong one in box.
Dave ----
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Joined: Apr 2011
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From: Orlando area
A lot of guys running performance 460s (high compression engines) are using the 1992+ permanent-maganet-gear-reduction (pmgr) starters. They work much better than the old style starters on our antique trucks. There is no difference in flywheel or flex plate tooth count (other than the starter is different for Auto trans and Manual trans, as already mentioned).
It just requires a small modification to the wiring as these starters have built-in solenoid so don't need the fender solenoid. Some just make a jumper from starter pos cable to starter S term,and continue to use the fender solenoid. Others will run batt cable to starter and use the starter mounted solenoid (keeping fender mounted just as the junction block for cab power).
Ultima R613184B - Starter | O'Reilly Auto Parts
It just requires a small modification to the wiring as these starters have built-in solenoid so don't need the fender solenoid. Some just make a jumper from starter pos cable to starter S term,and continue to use the fender solenoid. Others will run batt cable to starter and use the starter mounted solenoid (keeping fender mounted just as the junction block for cab power).
Ultima R613184B - Starter | O'Reilly Auto Parts
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so all I can find says there are 2 starters as well however my local parts store says there is only 1 grrr. the flex plat is in right its externataly ballenced and can only be put on one way or the weight will push against the torque converter.
Thread Starter
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New User
Joined: Jun 2017
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A lot of guys running performance 460s (high compression engines) are using the 1992+ permanent-maganet-gear-reduction (pmgr) starters. They work much better than the old style starters on our antique trucks. There is no difference in flywheel or flex plate tooth count (other than the starter is different for Auto trans and Manual trans, as already mentioned).
It just requires a small modification to the wiring as these starters have built-in solenoid so don't need the fender solenoid. Some just make a jumper from starter pos cable to starter S term,and continue to use the fender solenoid. Others will run batt cable to starter and use the starter mounted solenoid (keeping fender mounted just as the junction block for cab power).
Ultima R613184B - Starter | O'Reilly Auto Parts
It just requires a small modification to the wiring as these starters have built-in solenoid so don't need the fender solenoid. Some just make a jumper from starter pos cable to starter S term,and continue to use the fender solenoid. Others will run batt cable to starter and use the starter mounted solenoid (keeping fender mounted just as the junction block for cab power).
Ultima R613184B - Starter | O'Reilly Auto Parts
FTE Legend
Joined: Nov 2015
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From: Angier, NC
Being there are 2 starters and the tooth count the same it must be how far the gear comes out I would think.
Who are you getting the start(s) thru?
I just checked Auto Zone for a starter for my truck, 81 F100 with a 300 six and T18 stick trany. They list 2 starters, 1 for stick and the other for auto.
Again it could be packaged wrong but you did say they told you they only had 1 starter.
For my drag car I went with Welcome to RobbMc Performance Products starter made in the USA but think a little over kill for a stock street motor unless running headers and they are to close to the starter and cook it.
Dave ----
Who are you getting the start(s) thru?
I just checked Auto Zone for a starter for my truck, 81 F100 with a 300 six and T18 stick trany. They list 2 starters, 1 for stick and the other for auto.
Again it could be packaged wrong but you did say they told you they only had 1 starter.
For my drag car I went with Welcome to RobbMc Performance Products starter made in the USA but think a little over kill for a stock street motor unless running headers and they are to close to the starter and cook it.
Dave ----
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Joined: Apr 2011
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From: Orlando area
And the difference in the two starters one for the auto and other one manual, the pinion gear is moved slightly on one from the other.
You have to look close to see it.
You have to look close to see it.
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pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
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From: EXTREME southwest CT
From what I know there is one early style (bendix) starter.
The later PMGR style starters have different depth of engagement *and* slightly different clocking, which changes the mesh.
So, what is happening to your bendix Richard?
Are the tips of the teeth worn?
Is the engine blowing the snout clean off the starter?
Does it work at first and then wear enough to skip and spin?
How are the teeth on your new flexplate holding up?
The later PMGR style starters have different depth of engagement *and* slightly different clocking, which changes the mesh.
So, what is happening to your bendix Richard?
Are the tips of the teeth worn?
Is the engine blowing the snout clean off the starter?
Does it work at first and then wear enough to skip and spin?
How are the teeth on your new flexplate holding up?
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Posting Guru
Joined: Apr 2011
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From: Orlando area
I'm not an expert on this - only reporting what I have read from what I believe are reputable sources. They say all the starters for the 460 from 1969 to 1997 models are interchangeable (only the "Auto" trans and "Manual" trans starters are different).
I don't know this first hand, but the info comes from the processional engine builders and racers and moderators at the 460.com and 429-460.com websites.
I don't know this first hand, but the info comes from the processional engine builders and racers and moderators at the 460.com and 429-460.com websites.
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 40
From: EXTREME southwest CT
You can use an early starter in a '92& up truck but the PMGR starters are specific to manual or auto (flywheel or flex plate)
If you want some measurements and part numbers for different gears, etc.. have a look at my 'Jim's ongoing starter issues' thread.
It was back in the spring of '12
If you want some measurements and part numbers for different gears, etc.. have a look at my 'Jim's ongoing starter issues' thread.
It was back in the spring of '12
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 40
From: EXTREME southwest CT
Richard,
Do you have the metal spacer plate in place between the flexplate and block?
Does the lower bolt hole in your bell have tight threads?
Without the plate to locate it the starter will cam out.
If the threads are not tight you might want to install a Helicoil.
Do you have the metal spacer plate in place between the flexplate and block?
Does the lower bolt hole in your bell have tight threads?
Without the plate to locate it the starter will cam out.
If the threads are not tight you might want to install a Helicoil.
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New User
Joined: Jun 2017
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From what I know there is one early style (bendix) starter.
The later PMGR style starters have different depth of engagement *and* slightly different clocking, which changes the mesh.
So, what is happening to your bendix Richard?
Are the tips of the teeth worn?
Is the engine blowing the snout clean off the starter?
Does it work at first and then wear enough to skip and spin?
How are the teeth on your new flexplate holding up?
The later PMGR style starters have different depth of engagement *and* slightly different clocking, which changes the mesh.
So, what is happening to your bendix Richard?
Are the tips of the teeth worn?
Is the engine blowing the snout clean off the starter?
Does it work at first and then wear enough to skip and spin?
How are the teeth on your new flexplate holding up?
Thread Starter
|
New User
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
I'm not an expert on this - only reporting what I have read from what I believe are reputable sources. They say all the starters for the 460 from 1969 to 1997 models are interchangeable (only the "Auto" trans and "Manual" trans starters are different).
I don't know this first hand, but the info comes from the processional engine builders and racers and moderators at the 460.com and 429-460.com websites.
I don't know this first hand, but the info comes from the processional engine builders and racers and moderators at the 460.com and 429-460.com websites.
Posting Guru
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,636
Likes: 5
From: Orlando area
However if you look the starter up by year (80-86) you will get one part number for the "old style for auto transmission".
But if you tell the parts guy you have a 1992 truck with 460 and auto transmission, you will get a different part number (the pmgr type).
Either type will fit a 460 with auto trans.
But the pmgr is "better" as it provides more torque at less amperage required (if you don't mind doing some wiring mods.) Here is some more discussion on the subject: high torque mini starters? - 460 Ford Forum
BTW, i use the old style in my 460 and have no problems with it.
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 40
From: EXTREME southwest CT
the tips of the teeth are barley touching the flex plate its like the diameter of the gears its too small. when both where brand new all worked great after about 6 starts all it will do is spin and based on the wear marks the Bendix is fully engaging outward its just to far from the flex plate..... I have now been told that maybe one or both dowel pins might not be there as that is the only way to miss align the starter and flex plate plz bare in mind I did not put them in so next I'm gonna separate them and see if pins are there. at this point I'm hopping there not ty all agin
I ended up slotting the lower hole and clearanceg the piloting diameter of the starter a little bit.
Then I could pivot the starter on the upper (back) bolt, and used a serrated flange bolt on the lower to really clamp it in there.
I know I had my dowel pins installed.
(I did ultimately switch for a later PMGR starter, and had to do the same to it)
If you click on my profile and search for threads I've started you can find all the details.
--- I'm on my phone, so it's a pita to set up links---
Good luck!
I know what you're going through.
