Do you know that the timing was set when the turbo was installed and what it was set to? It's not necessary to touch the injection pump to install a turbo so I doubt it was done, especially considering it was installed by a dealer rather than the owner. When work it outsourced I've found only the bare minimum is ever done.

There is a range of acceptable timing. Much over 10* and you'll start burning up glow plugs, and within that range the less advance the hotter EGT will be. I can only speak from my experience that changing to 9* from 6.5* resulted in significant MPG increase, low RPM torque increase, and lower EGT. I have my 6.9 with turbo and 100cc pump set to 9*, I am happy with performance and economy (averaging 15 MPG mostly around town with a ZF5) but I do still have to watch the pyro when towing. An intercooler is in my truck's future.

 

No, I don't know for a fact that the timing was adjusted, or that the pump was turned up at the time of the turbo installation.It is an assumption on my part. I have to admit that I have not had any inclination to play with the timing or the pump setting, since the truck has always been very reliable. It has had the typical glow plug and controller issues, but nothing much more. I have timed everything from a 1929 Reo to present day vehicles, but haven't got the slightest clue on timing a 6.9 diesel. When I'm standing in front of the truck looking at the engine. the hash mark on the pump housing is to the left of the mark on the engine. I have read that this is advanced from TDC. Any adjustments I make would be what we used to call road timing back in the day. I don't know if this would be an acceptable method or not . My milage has always been 10 to 12, and I have grown to accepting this as normal. I would love to get 15 mpg.

Peter A.

 

You assume a lot. Nobody knows much about timing at most shops these days, and I doubt there was anything in the ATS install guide about timing.
The banks guide doesn't talk about it either - just turning up the fuel by 1.5 flats or something.


In my *opinion*, use it as a starting point and adjust back and forth until it feels the most powerful when accelerating or pulling a load. Especially with an old IP, you'll probably find that the most powerful setting is... different compared to any 'book' numbers, but it'll run better - the reason is that the IP timing 'curve' changes as it wears.

Remember that the most powerful setting is also going to be really close to optimal fuel economy wise - the engine will be getting the most out of the fuel it's given.

 

Thanks for the advice Macrobb, I will attempt to adjust this next week, and will let you know what the outcome is. First I will have to get [or make] the correct tool so that I can loosen the ip.

 

Uh, I just use Harbor Freight stubby wrenches. With those, I have no trouble loosening the three 9/16 nuts.
I do have one of those stubby 9/16 wrenches "thinned" with a grinder on the back(enclosed) end, for better clearance on one motor which had slightly longer studs.

 

This is the timing adapter I use, the Ferret V165. Ferret Instruments V765-01 Injector Tester - Fuel System Tools It's worth the money if you intend to keep the truck a long time.

Just put the clamp on the #1 line (passenger front) near the injector (you may have to sand the line to bare metal) and use your dial back timing light on the inductive loop. Raise RPM to 2000 RPM while checking. Do not run the engine with the pump loose or try to adjust while running, you could break the pump input shaft. I use a center punch to mark the pump to timing gear cover joint so I have a reference as I adjust. Turn top of pump to passenger side to advance.

In a pinch you can make a mark and turn it about half a mark to a full mark advanced and see how it changes. Only do this is you know it is way retarded, like no diesel clatter and sounds like a small block Chevy. Timing by ear is not a substitute for the correct tools. You might see if someone on the forum is near you and has the tools to time it, I see you're in CA so I can't help being 3000 miles away. You really can't pay someone to time a mechanical diesel as few have the tools to do it, they'll just ballpark it and take your money.

 

Thanks for the replies guys. Timing is an issue that I probably have put off for too long. I will be getting into this next week, but I still have my original question: Where do I install the Hobbs [pressure switch] for the water injection system on my 6.9. The only place that I can think of is the pressure chamber, but that is where the injector nozzle will be located. I'm afraid that the water mist in the chamber will ruin the pressure switch.

 

I do not have an answer, but in cases like this, I have always gone back to the manufacture to ask questions like these. Depending on the situation, sometimes the vendor has been able to supply it as well. I prefer the manufacture though. They should have a vested interest in the system performing for your application.

 

I have in fact asked the tech support at Devils Own, and gotten a somewhat none-specific vague answer. I have gotten the impression that they don't even know what an idi is. At first they were talking about the throttle body and map sensor. As I said in the begining of this thread: the truck is older than the people selling the product. That's why I thought to turn to the forum members for advice.

 

Pretty much, but I don't get what the 'fear' of timing by ear is. You'll get close enough with a few drive-adjust-drive-adjust cycles, and even if you can do 'better' with the proper equipment, /not/ having that equipment is no reason not to time it by ear first and get it closer than it is right now.


Don't you have a boost gauge line off the turbo or intake hat(somewhere pressurized)?
If so, just tee into that.
If not, you may need to thread in a small hose barb somewhere(probably in the intake hat) and use that.

Typically, boost gauges and sensors tend to come with a small roll of tubing and a tiny 'filter' piece which goes inline and keeps oil or water out of the gauge/sensor.

If you don't have one, you might want to find one on Ebay(a little filter)

 

Understood
I hate it when a manufacture cannot supply installation information when requested.

 

Of course I have the turbo boost line that goes to the boost gauge. That was my very first thought. Upon inspection I found that the boost line has oil in it. So.......Do I contaminate the pressure [Hobbs] switch with water or oil ? The reason that I'm so dead set on this water injection is very simple. While at Fort Rucker Alabama in the late sixties, I saw and worked on several different radial engines that had water injection systems.When these engines were pulled apart for scheduled work, I was amazed at the condition of the pistons, heads etc. I was told that this was only one of the benefits of water injection. As a hot rodder from California, I didn't really consider the upside of this type of system at the time. But you mellow with age, and old technology is sometimes much more practical than all of the new garbage that they come out with today. I was surprised to find out that water injection was available, and can't wait to install the system.

 

Add a filter?

There is *nothing* that will be better - it's the same air everywhere.

Also, a pressure switch *shouldn't* actually let any air through - it's a dead end. It's like a garden hose that's been blocked off at the end - you can sense that there's pressure there, even though there's no water moving through it, because the molecules of water(air in this case) are pushing against the ones already in the tube all the way down the tube.

 

I just wanted to chime in and say that higher timing does eat glow plugs as Cadunke says here, just something to keep in mind as there 100$/set

 

Fear? It's just a hokey and inaccurate way to do things. You have no idea what's actually going on, no useful data to compare one setting to another or reproduce your results. It's a hack job way to do things. The proper tools are readily available, there's no excuse for not using them aside from flat out not caring. Plenty of people are of that mindset and just want their vehicle to run and go from A to B and they don't care if it runs like crap, the brakes are mushy, tires dry rotted, hemorrhages every type of fluid, and burns twice the fuel it should.

Just like adjusting timing on a gas engine, you can get it very wrong without the proper tools. Too far retarded and you can burn valves, it'll run poorly, and get horrible economy. Too advanced and you can crack pistons, crack rings, destroy rod and main bearings. When you build a new engine you don't know what initial timing and curve it will perform best with, which is why you experiment and measure every step of the way. Then you ensure you don't end up in the dangerous area risking engine damage and you have measurable and reproducible numbers for the life of the engine.

You regularly sing the virtues of just winging it with regard to timing, encouraging it over doing the job properly. I challenge you to set 3 different engines, or even the same engine, to the same timing setting of your choice. If you can do that, color me amazed. Now pick any random person who has done a few tune-ups and brake jobs and get them to do the same.