So I am replacing my heater core. While I am at it I figured I would do a coolant flush, replace the thermostate and high idle sensor. So my my question is this. In the past I always used regular green anti-freeze with SCA. I decided to go with the precharged and found the PEAK stuff below. Is it the same as Fleet Charge that is safe for our diesels? It does not require any SCAs, correct?

 

OH, and I forgot.......do the block plugs require thread sealant? With them being NPT I would think so, but I wanted to make sure. Thanks

 

Thread sealant is a good idea on the block plugs. It doesn't take much.

No that is NOT the same as Fleet Charge.
What you have there is an ELC (extended life coolant) with OAT (organic acid technology). Different technology than the green stuff/SCA's. It probably could be run. I believe someone in another thread was saying it would be ok since there are minimal o-rings in an IDI cooling system (pretty much just the oil cooler I think).

Fleet Charge has SCA's added, but is still an old school type coolant. I've had good luck with it in my two trucks so far.

 

Dang it!! That's what I get for being lazy and not wanting to stop at another store. I usually run the green stuff and NAPA Kool. I haven't filled anything yet, so I can take it back and visit the other store for some Fleet Charge.

I would give running this stuff a try, but with the 7.3 I am worried about cavitation.....especially since I want to get another 300K miles out if it.

 

Nothing listed or shown in your post, so I assume you are talking about the the PEAK 'Extended Life' coolants, either FINAL CHARGE 'NOAT' (uses Nitrited Organic Acid Technology additives) or FINAL CHARGE 'GLOBAL' (which uses OAT additives without the nitrites).
I think the OAT technology used in FINAL CHARGE 'GLOBAL' is the newer technology and that is the one that I would pick. Also, see the quote from RV Tech. Magazine further below.

I was very sceptical of the ELC coolants for the 2+ years that I have had my truck because the labels usually indicated "for use in newer diesel engines" (back to about 2006) but to make a long detailed story short I now believe that was mostly for marketing convenience and the fact that they had not tested it in older engines like our IDIs.

There was an alleged problem with using an ELC in one or two of the model years of the 7.3L Power Stroke, (I think that was about 1999-2201?) which might have been a factor in why the Coolant manufacturers listed it for "newer diesel engines' (going back to around 2006) but mostly I think it's because they had not tested it in older engines and IDI engines. I've dismissed that Power Stroke story as probably invalid. As I vaguely recall, it was related to cracked injector cups and I couldn't see any relationship to coolants. Aside from that there was also a claim that an ELC technology of that era was not compatible with some seals and I seem to recall that was in one or two of the European manufactured diesels. At this time I accept most of the Diesel ELCs without any reservations and that's what I will use next time.

Quoted From:
Diesel Engine Coolants

It's well worth clicking on the LINK above and reading about those other benefits and that author used some excellent sources.

 

It is the Final Charge Global.

I guess my real question is "Does this coolant protect me against cavitation?".

With it being ELC, does that mean that I could run it for multiple years without having to flush anything? If this is the case, I would consider it. It would be nice to increase the maintenance intervals.

 

OOPS. I see it now, I had some privacy software running that blocked an oodle (that's a bunch) of tracking software (usually connected with advertising and Facebook links) which included the image you posted. I usually have it disabled for this site.

The other posts came up while I was writing my long one.

Re: what I posted prior to this. I studied this subject extensively, including every research document that I could possibly find online and I am well experienced at finding those (very technical stuff which I like to read) and I have come to trust most of the ELCs and the OAT ELCs appear to be the newest and best.

tecgod13, I mentioned the 'seals' issue in my post and as I recall that was evidenced 10 years ago or longer and in a European engine. Maybe it was butyl rubber o-rings. I never saw exactly what seals were affected. I think that would have been with earlier ELC additives and a lot has changed in protective additives since then.

I would hope that the newer OAT additive formulations addressed and remedied that issue.
For me this means that I'll have to go back and research this again.

A bit of circumstantial evidence that indicates that perhaps the issue was addressed and solved:

I was in a NAPA store one day reading labels on several prominent brands of diesel ELC coolants (I think that they all used OAT additives) and I recall seeing "FOR ALL DIESEL ENGINES" on at least one of the labels. I am sure that they would not take such a big chance on that claim if it wasn't true because:
There are lots of old diesel trucks and diesel engines including IDIs used globally and still in fleets for commercial, construction, service trucks of all sorts, equipment etc., typically in less developed countries than the USA. Coolant manufacturers market their products globally and that is a very important part of their market. If these coolants were or are damaging seals they would get a bad reputation fairly quickly.

Nevertheless, I'll have to go back and research this specific issue again before I can fully recommend an ELC. It takes a lot of time to do that and becoming a coolant "expert" or "consultant" is not something that was ever on my list of things that I wanted to accomplish or pursue in my life!

It would be SO SIMPLE if just ONE qualified engineer or chemist working on diesel engine coolant formulations or just ONE such qualified person from [I.H.] NAVISTAR or anyone qualified would state somewhere that YES it's fine for these IDI engines and the O-ring seals in the Oil Cooler or NO it is not!

I should send an email to Navistar and ask for a qualified opinion and I'll probably do that at some point when I'm not so busy. And/Or, I could find a web page created by someone who has good contacts in the coolant manufacturing industry and ask that person to find out.

I am very tempted to use an OAT ELC anyway and I probably will next time because flushing the cooling system is a job that I do not like. Fortunately, as I recall, the OAT ELC is backwards compatible with other coolants so the system does not need to be flushed completely free of residual coolants. I did a thorough flush on my truck last summer and I used PEAK'S FLEET CHARGE with SCAs.

 

Answers: Regarding protection against cavitation: YES very much so and considerably better than the old SCA formulations.

Re: Extended life? YES that is what it means, very extended life and very high miles, up to 600,000 miles with a requirement to add a quart of an additive booster at 300,000 miles. I think that is what can be expected in a newer engine cooling system (10 years old or so) which basically means clean and in good condition.

The affect of the newer OAT ELCs on O-ring seals in our IDI oil cooler is still an unanswered question in this topic.

I am at a point where I really don't care if that is 'an issue' unless it is a big issue. I'm going to use an ELC next time anyway.

The seals in my oil cooler are already 30+ years old and at some point they'll probably die of old age regardless of what coolant I use. I'll deal with that when the time comes.

 

Thanks for the info. I may attempt to run it then and see what happens.

 

In a 7.3L with 1/5th of the cylinder wall thickness removed from a 6.9L cylinder wall, thus creating more critical cylinder wall vibration and increased cavitation and a higher risk for cavitation related failure I would definitely use an OAT based ELC.
'FINAL CHARGE GLOBAL' is a very good choice.

PEAK is among the best manufacturers of engine coolants world-wide, excellent company, history, technical ability and experience and possibly at the top of the mainstream manufacturers.

There is one "system" that may be better which involves changing out or adding some components but I can't recall the name of it. 'Anderson' or something like that. (Begins with an 'A'?). It was too expensive (I couldn't afford it) and more work than I wanted to do.

 

I picked up some of NAPA`s
Heavy Duty Coolant/Antifreeze
SCA Precharged
For all Heavy Duty Engines.


The one I bought is the concentrated just add distilled water.
This link shows the 50/50 stuff. Why buy 1/2 gallon of water?
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NAFHDRTU1GAL


Click on the picture to enlarge it.
I guess it`s the right stuff?


EDIT: there is three listings on the front of the jug.
On mine there is a 4th one,
"Helps prevent drop out, gel and scale"




Charlie

 

A while back, I ran that Final Charge stuff for a few months when I couldn't get my hands on a case of Fleetcharge pink in Los Angeles. Since I knew I was going to eventually change it out, I figured that it probably would be fine. I didn't run into any new issues, but I was battling a lot of other crap at the time.

Prior to, and currently, I always run the pink fleetcharge. You can save yourself some money if you by the concentrated bottles and mix your own distilled water in.

 

I first went to O`Reilly`s, or maybe it should be "OH Really`s" anyway, they do not stock
the concentrated coolants in any brand. And nothing that is close to a Fleet Charge.


More money made with the 50/50 stuff I guess. They cater to the majority of the consumers that want instant everything.


NAPA had plenty of the pink stuff on the shelf.




Charlie

 

I looked at the final charge label, which calls out Cummins CES 14603. This is a spec that was called out in the other ELC coolant topic as being what you need, because it *doesn't* have the acid that can destroy the rubber.

I'm using Zerex HD ELC myself, which also conforms to the Cummins CES 14603, Cat EC-1 etc.

 

I went ahead and filled with the ELC. I will see how it goes. Thanks for the info.