Calling you awesome engine builders.
FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
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From: Northeast, OK
Dave is right - the stock heads are poor. The guy that I used to flow mine is a big-time engine guy and goes to the Amsoil Engine Master's Challenge each year. He told me that the restriction in a Chevy head is in the intake, and in a Ford head it is the exhaust.
So, when I was figuring out what I wanted for Dad's truck I talked to the pro for 335 Series engines - Tim Meyer. As Dave is explaining, Tim discussed pricing on stock heads with new valves/seats/springs, stock heads with some porting and valves/seats/springs, Aussie heads with valve/seats/springs, and Trick Flow aluminum heads. I went with the latter as it wasn't that much more in cost, and dramatically more in flow.
And, by the way, Dad's engine showed 500 ft-lbs & 384 HP on Tim's dyno. It easily could have done more, but I specifically chose a low-duration cam to bring the torque in at low RPM, so it was out of breath up in the RPM range where horsepower is made.
So, when I was figuring out what I wanted for Dad's truck I talked to the pro for 335 Series engines - Tim Meyer. As Dave is explaining, Tim discussed pricing on stock heads with new valves/seats/springs, stock heads with some porting and valves/seats/springs, Aussie heads with valve/seats/springs, and Trick Flow aluminum heads. I went with the latter as it wasn't that much more in cost, and dramatically more in flow.
And, by the way, Dad's engine showed 500 ft-lbs & 384 HP on Tim's dyno. It easily could have done more, but I specifically chose a low-duration cam to bring the torque in at low RPM, so it was out of breath up in the RPM range where horsepower is made.
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Junior User
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 75
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From: South dfw
Definitely agreed on the heads, three ones I've been looking at are around 800 for a pair but I've also been seeing some i like around the 800 a piece range as well. Definitely looking at an aluminum set over cast iron, as the 3hp gain over iron is minimal and not a big enough difference to decide but the weight reduction factor is what drives aluminum for me. A high flow aluminum water pump paired with a 180' fail open thermostat should save me from them ever overheating and cracking. Gonna run a double heavy duty timing chain/gear set up with it. So no worries about the torque from the cam snapping anything in that department. And in regards to the exhaust set up im probably going to go with a set of cermic coated headers, with true dual exhaust cutting out just before the rear tires.
Cargo Master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,295
Likes: 25
From: NJ
Regarding the high flow aluminum water pump. Regardless of small block or 385 series use an Edelbrock water pump. They are very good quality and have nicely machined impellers. Weiand and others I've tried have cheap stamped impellers and not nearly as nice of a finish, and I've promptly returned them as the junk they are.
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Junior User
Joined: Feb 2017
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From: South dfw
Thanks on the water pump as i did have the weiland in mind at the moment. And to be honest i dont have a specific hp or torque goal that im shooting for, and on my title it has the truck listed about 3600lbs where as the 95 ram shortbed ive got has it listed about 4200lbs. As for mileage if i could 15 out of it id jump through burning rings with glee. Lol i have no unrealestic goals of turning a brick into a prius. If i could 12 mpg with it i would happy, as far as hp, without machining the block, 1.12 hp per ci, with 1.5 torque per ci would be a good enough goal i would imagine.
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Junior User
Joined: Feb 2017
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From: South dfw
Also as far as aluminum vs cast, the other selling factor that has me leaning toward the alum, is that it has about 1/3 less heat retention over the cast iron cylinder heads.
as far as a bosst application, i have the absolute bare bones knowledge of how it works, and wouldnt mind tutoring me on how the work on a carbureted engine i would love to learn, especially as i know a boosted engine can drastically increase its performance and economy. My dads 94' turbo diesel gets around 30 mpg, but when the turbo went out on it it struggled to get 15, that kinda difference is what has me i terested in a turbo or supercharger boost application, however from my understanding, a supercharger would negatively impact the fuel economy of the engine. And please correct me whever i am wrong, no need to worry about hurting my feelings, im no snowflake.
as far as a bosst application, i have the absolute bare bones knowledge of how it works, and wouldnt mind tutoring me on how the work on a carbureted engine i would love to learn, especially as i know a boosted engine can drastically increase its performance and economy. My dads 94' turbo diesel gets around 30 mpg, but when the turbo went out on it it struggled to get 15, that kinda difference is what has me i terested in a turbo or supercharger boost application, however from my understanding, a supercharger would negatively impact the fuel economy of the engine. And please correct me whever i am wrong, no need to worry about hurting my feelings, im no snowflake.
Cargo Master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,295
Likes: 25
From: NJ
So you'd like around 400 HP. A 460 makes more sense financially and so far as long term reliability. A 400 HP 351 will not have perfect street manners, rough idle and so forth. It also won't last as long before the next overhaul as a 460, and of course you'll be into it for decent aftermarket heads. A 400 HP 460 is basically a stock rebuild without the smog crap and and maybe some mild cleanup of the exhaust ports (remove smog bumps and clean up the casting flash). It'll idle smooth at 700 RPM and last as long as a factory low output engine. You can do it with a 351w, and the SBF is a good platform, but it's not gonna idle as nice or get as good MPG if you want to run an overdrive trans at lower RPM. A ~325 HP 351w would be more suitable for a daily driver.
Don't compare a smog era gas anything to a turbo diesel. Apples to oranges. If you do forced induction it's paying dollars for smiles. First determine your power/performance/MPG goals then determine how to get there. Forced induction is not likely to be part of that gameplan unless you're working with an old diesel.
Don't compare a smog era gas anything to a turbo diesel. Apples to oranges. If you do forced induction it's paying dollars for smiles. First determine your power/performance/MPG goals then determine how to get there. Forced induction is not likely to be part of that gameplan unless you're working with an old diesel.
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: Virginia
Forced induction with a carb is not easy. A lot of support pieces are required and a lot of modification and custom parts. And for the best boosted engine, the engine should be designed for it in the beginning to work the best and give the best power.
Fuel injection with computer controls work best with forced induction. Diesels are very easy to turbo or supercharge because they are fuel injected. The first half-decent factory turbo cars were the SVO mustang, turbo coupe and the Buick GN, all fuel injected. The latest effort is the Ecoboost stuff, all computer controlled, all fuel injected.
Fuel injection with computer controls work best with forced induction. Diesels are very easy to turbo or supercharge because they are fuel injected. The first half-decent factory turbo cars were the SVO mustang, turbo coupe and the Buick GN, all fuel injected. The latest effort is the Ecoboost stuff, all computer controlled, all fuel injected.
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Junior User
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 75
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From: South dfw
Forced induction with a carb is not easy. A lot of support pieces are required and a lot of modification and custom parts. And for the best boosted engine, the engine should be designed for it in the beginning to work the best and give the best power.
Fuel injection with computer controls work best with forced induction. Diesels are very easy to turbo or supercharge because they are fuel injected. The first half-decent factory turbo cars were the SVO mustang, turbo coupe and the Buick GN, all fuel injected. The latest effort is the Ecoboost stuff, all computer controlled, all fuel injected.
Fuel injection with computer controls work best with forced induction. Diesels are very easy to turbo or supercharge because they are fuel injected. The first half-decent factory turbo cars were the SVO mustang, turbo coupe and the Buick GN, all fuel injected. The latest effort is the Ecoboost stuff, all computer controlled, all fuel injected.
and i agree cadunkle, diesel to gas engine comparisons are not ecen in the same ballpark, just noting that a turbo can greatly increase the efficiency and fuel economy of an engine. And though i may potentially have the room for a 460 in my f150 front end i dont neccasarily want to upgrade the suspension for it. So a low to mid 300 hp engine would be a good area to build to then.
By the way cadunkle, the dunkle isnt part of your actual last name is it? I only ask as my last name is Dunkle, so my curiosity is getting the best of me.
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Joined: Jan 2001
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From: Virginia
I see more and more people swapping 460's in place. I believe the stock suspension is up to the task and can handle it. It would be the simplest way to get big torque and hp numbers, though you would have to be careful about fuel efficiency. An overdrive transmission would be a must to get any mpg out of a 460. And if you want it to cruise at a low rpm with a overdrive trans, you don't want too much of a cam in it, and not a very large carb or intake.
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Junior User
Joined: Feb 2017
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From: South dfw
So school me in the transmission world now then franklin2, what od transmission doesnt require a computer synced in with the motor, ive heard of one on here that you can run a adapter of some sort with it that acts like the computer or something to that effect. Forgive it has been a while since i read through that and once i saw that it required essentially a computer i brain dumped most of what i had read.
as it stands now i have the c6 in the truck now, and im not neccasarily oppised to a trans swap as long as i can get it and the motor swapped in a day, there's a seabee base with a complete auto shop my dad and i can rent for a day to get it done, i may be able to pick up a third able body male to help us get it done for free, to aquire a couple of seabees would cost me a few pizzias and a few cases of beer. Lol
as it stands now i have the c6 in the truck now, and im not neccasarily oppised to a trans swap as long as i can get it and the motor swapped in a day, there's a seabee base with a complete auto shop my dad and i can rent for a day to get it done, i may be able to pick up a third able body male to help us get it done for free, to aquire a couple of seabees would cost me a few pizzias and a few cases of beer. Lol
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