Injector cup removal
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 27,352
Likes: 5,946
From: Lake Hartwell, GA
It is hard to see, but could it be residual coolant? I don't know if you had ELC or not.
Maybe I am seeing something that is not even there, are you talking about the fluid that is in the bottom left of the bore?
Maybe I am seeing something that is not even there, are you talking about the fluid that is in the bottom left of the bore?
Thread Starter
|
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,402
Likes: 38
From: Bonita Springs FL
No the fluid in the bottom is brake parts cleaner. It's been brushed out and sprayed multiple times. There's a ring of discoloration around the opening. I don't know how it could be sealant. It looks bonded to the metal.
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 18,849
Likes: 179
From: Puget Sound
You can ignore that, the bore is clean - which is the critical part. That ring looks like nothing more than an indentation from pressure from the injector copper washer. Maybe this was a loose injector, and you were getting some hammer in there. The cup and retaining compound will smooth that over, and it won't come into play.
Thread Starter
|
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,402
Likes: 38
From: Bonita Springs FL
Ok, that's a relief. I thought I did have a slightly noisy injector, but it sounded to me like it was on the other side. As long as I'm done cleaning that bore out. What a PITA it is to get done on #5 and #7.
Speaking of PITAs... the seal driver tool keeps getting stuck in the cups after installation. It's currently stuck in #1 without any sign of loosening no matter how hard I pull on it. They started getting progressively tighter. The last one I did was #8 and it was stuck in there good. I found that a shot of PB helped free it, but I don't know about the effects of PB blaster on still-curing loctite 620 so I just left the tool in there overnight this time. I tried dabbing the end of the tool with fresh motor oil before I drove this last one in, but apparently it didn't help. In addition to not being able to get the tool out easily, I'm also worried that it might damage the cups on the way out.
I wish the end of the installer was threaded, but it's not. Any ideas on how to un-stick it?
Speaking of PITAs... the seal driver tool keeps getting stuck in the cups after installation. It's currently stuck in #1 without any sign of loosening no matter how hard I pull on it. They started getting progressively tighter. The last one I did was #8 and it was stuck in there good. I found that a shot of PB helped free it, but I don't know about the effects of PB blaster on still-curing loctite 620 so I just left the tool in there overnight this time. I tried dabbing the end of the tool with fresh motor oil before I drove this last one in, but apparently it didn't help. In addition to not being able to get the tool out easily, I'm also worried that it might damage the cups on the way out.
I wish the end of the installer was threaded, but it's not. Any ideas on how to un-stick it?
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 18,849
Likes: 179
From: Puget Sound
I always goop the tool with silicone lube before using it to install a cup. A word of caution - make sure the cup has none of that on the mating surface to the engine. I never had an issue with extracting the tool from the cup.
Thread Starter
|
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,402
Likes: 38
From: Bonita Springs FL
I got all 8 cups installed, and the pressure test passed. It held pressure for at least 15 minutes and I sprayed silicone in all the bores and didn't see any bubbling or signs of leakage at all.
Thanks guys!
Thanks guys!
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 18,849
Likes: 179
From: Puget Sound
As for holding air, the real test is 24 hours. The silicone spray test circumvents waiting 24 hours and is far more reliable. Congratulations! Well done! 
FTE Stories
Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts
Rezvani's Latest Post-Apocalytic Monster Is a Ford F-150 Raptor Underneath
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Most Expensive Ford Trucks Ever Sold on Bring a Trailer
Joe Kucinski
2027 Ford Super Duty Buyer's Guide (Every Model, Engine, & Package)
Brett Foote
Top 10 Ford Truck Tragedies
Joe Kucinski
AEV FXL Super Duty - the Super Duty Raptor Ford Doesn't Make
Brett Foote
Lobo Vs Lobo: Proof the F-150 Lobo Should Be Even Lower!
Michael S. Palmer
Ford's 2001 Explorer Sportsman Concept Looks For a New Home
Verdad Gallardo
10 Best Ford Truck Engines We Miss the Most!
Joe Kucinski
2026 Shelby F-150 Off-Road: Better Than a Raptor R?
Brett Foote
Thread Starter
|
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,402
Likes: 38
From: Bonita Springs FL
Andy, I will assume that you have removed both the top and bottom hold down bolts for cup removal so what follows is on point.
In early December '16 I replaced injectors. When checking the torque values on the lower hold down bolts they were all within spec at 120 in/lbs. However, when I checked the upper hold bolts some were as low as 55 in/lbs which explains the loud engine due to loose injectors. There is a ton of speculation as to why they had worked loose and I won't spend any time on the possibilities for their looseness.
The antidote to their working loose so far, 12k miles later, has been this Loctite 243. Here are the specs: Blue Threadlocker | LOCTITE - Henkel Adhesives North America It is tolerant of small amounts of oil.
I also used the primer: Loctite 19269 7649 Primer N Activator after cleaning and drying all holes of oil and dirt. I then applied Loctite 243, installed and torqued the upper hold down bolts and let them cure for 24 hours.
Injectors were then seated. Then, the lower hold down bolts were torqued to 120 in/lbs initially and then HOT torqued.
I now have a quiet, it is relative, running 7.3L. I did exceed the factory spec on torque by 15 in/lbs on both.
I now think that I am preventing damage to cups thus preventing a future repair job.
In early December '16 I replaced injectors. When checking the torque values on the lower hold down bolts they were all within spec at 120 in/lbs. However, when I checked the upper hold bolts some were as low as 55 in/lbs which explains the loud engine due to loose injectors. There is a ton of speculation as to why they had worked loose and I won't spend any time on the possibilities for their looseness.
The antidote to their working loose so far, 12k miles later, has been this Loctite 243. Here are the specs: Blue Threadlocker | LOCTITE - Henkel Adhesives North America It is tolerant of small amounts of oil.
I also used the primer: Loctite 19269 7649 Primer N Activator after cleaning and drying all holes of oil and dirt. I then applied Loctite 243, installed and torqued the upper hold down bolts and let them cure for 24 hours.
Injectors were then seated. Then, the lower hold down bolts were torqued to 120 in/lbs initially and then HOT torqued.
I now have a quiet, it is relative, running 7.3L. I did exceed the factory spec on torque by 15 in/lbs on both.
I now think that I am preventing damage to cups thus preventing a future repair job.
My question is probably a dumb one, how do you torque the upper before the injector is even seated in the bore?
Thread Starter
|
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,402
Likes: 38
From: Bonita Springs FL
It rained today, so no injector work. I did get the FRx lines on the heads and installed the HPOP and lines before it rained. Those lines click on really easy. They don't seem like they're on all the way but they don't pull off either. I guess I will find out when I crank it the first time.
Will post a picture in a second. I haven't even unpacked them all yet. Yes they are from unlimited.
Will post a picture in a second. I haven't even unpacked them all yet. Yes they are from unlimited.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 27,352
Likes: 5,946
From: Lake Hartwell, GA
It rained today, so no injector work. I did get the FRx lines on the heads and installed the HPOP and lines before it rained. Those lines click on really easy. They don't seem like they're on all the way but they don't pull off either. I guess I will find out when I crank it the first time.
Will post a picture in a second. I haven't even unpacked them all yet. Yes they are from unlimited.
Will post a picture in a second. I haven't even unpacked them all yet. Yes they are from unlimited.
The injectors are very nice looking. Congrats on the work you have done and the work you have yet to do.
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 18,849
Likes: 179
From: Puget Sound
The top bolt is a shoulder bolt, it seats on its own. The bottom bolt holds the injector down like a see-saw, not flat like one would suspect. The bottom bolt never seats, it just puts the correct amount of pressure on the injector hold-down see-saw. The other side (anchor side) of the see-saw is the top shoulder bolt.
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,404
Likes: 3
From: Asheville-where weird is
My injectors are due to arrive today and I'm pretty sure I won't be able to resist starting to install them. When I removed them, I took out the lower bolt but left the upper one in place. Reading your instructions it says to torque the uppers, seat the injectors, then torque the lowers.
My question is probably a dumb one, how do you torque the upper before the injector is even seated in the bore?
My question is probably a dumb one, how do you torque the upper before the injector is even seated in the bore?
I torque the upper bolt first, post seating, because the injector clamp slides over it and then slides downward thus locking the injector in place using the upper bolt as a reference and guide. I also used the above referenced Loctite to help keep it torqued to spec because I learned that the uppers were causing the loose injectors in this truck. Then the lower bolt is installed and torqued to spec which completes the see-saw that Rich refers to. The shoulder on the injector acts as a resting point for the "fulcrum" of the injector clamp "see-saw". If you look at the clamp, there is a slight hump.
Now, I have a question. Which/whose tool did you use that allowed you to leave the upper bolt in place while replacing cups?