I have been looking at the Saginaw pump from a 76 LTD with a 460, with or w/o air. It is a Saginaw pump with dual return lines. $50 rebuilt.

I also looked at the p/s pump for a mid 80's to mid 90's Econoline van with my engine in it. But, it has no hydro, so I passed. It is a Saginaw.

Does anyone know of another option, hopefully w/dual return lines?

 

Why not just use a newer superduty power steering pump?

They have dual return lines because they all have hydroboosts (if they're Diesel). I am considering using a 2009 Superduty p-steering pump in place of a saginaw, even though the saginsaw has a really good reputation.

Superdutys are more plentiful than e-series Ford vans with 460's and the older LTD's/Full-sized cars.

I read somewhere that an E-350 will have a saginaw pump under the hood.

 

1972/79 FoMoCo Passenger Cars with Hydro-Boost use a Saginaw P/S pump.

1972/77 FoMoCo Passenger Cars without Hydro-Boost use the Ford-Thompson 'pencil neck' P/S pump.

1978/79 FoMoCo Passenger Cars without Hydro-Boost use the Ford C-II P/S pump.

ALL 1975/96 Econolines use a Saginaw P/S pump. Hydro-Boost is not listed for 1975/89 Econolines in the 1973/79 & 1980/89 Ford truck parts catalogs. I didn't look after 1989.

 

ND, do All econoline saginaw pumps have that dual return line that we're all looking for?

Answered my own question. Looks like they do.

 

The Superduty pumps are CII pumps with dual returns. You can purchase the reservoir and put on your current CII pump. Im developing a electric power steering pump that will snap in to our current systems. Once I have gotten all the bugs worked out I will start a new thread.

 

Are dual return lines absolutely necessary? I think that I've read builds where the Hydroboost and the Power Steering are plumbed with one high pressure line split to feed both and another splitter with one return line to a cooler and then back to the pump. Will that not work?

 

I used my stock Saginaw power steering pump. It was freshly rebuilt before installing my 2001 f350 superduty hydroboost. It was a bit of a pain getting hoses for the metric hydroboost with standard Saginaw. I just teed my return line. My Saginaw whines unfortunately when the engine is just idling. I wondered if it too much for the stock Saginaw?
. I've only been running the set up for a couple month. Pretty cool mod though! My truck is a 1978 4x4 f250. I used my stock master cylinder also. Still have drums in the back.

 

I used a pump from a 94 hydroboosted F-Superduty for my 78. Swapped the pump from the 78 in place of the leaky and weak one on the 79. Turned the 79 pump in for a core. Works well.

 

Would my hose ends work on the newer power steering pump or would I have to changes the ends?

 

I see a few questions going unanswered, so I thought I would jump in and try to answer a few. Thanks to Number Dummy for joining with his valued expertise.

As ND showed, none of the Sag. pumps on the Econolines came with dual returns.

Regarding a pump with one return line: The Hydro equipped vehicles all had dual returns to keep the pump supplied with fluid. Using a T to convert to one return makes a bottle neck in the system. My understanding is that less fluid returning equals less going out.

[B]Important note:[B] One member noted that his pump required type of fluid, his hydro another, and problems arose from using one type for both. For that reason, I wanted to keep my system all one year or era (type of fluid).

I ordered a pump, through AZ, for a 1976 Saginaw pump, for an LTD with a 460. It cost $49, plus, I believe, $15 core. I should be able to swap my pulley right on it. My hydro is from 94, and uses the same fluid as the pump.

Does anyone know when the Ford hydros changed to metric threads?

 

I used an Astro van booster, the mentioned F-Superduty pump, and pressure lines for the same. The SD lines need to be bent slightly to fit properly. This makes the appearance a bit less than attractive, but uses factory style parts. I plan to change to -AN braided eventually.

 

I haven't come across this one yet, but I could definitely see it happening. The return line is low pressure, and has a small T-fitting...

I'm wondering how the system would respond to a slightly larger return line and an equally larger T-fitting. It would certainly help reduce the amount the system bottle-necks.

I believe the fluid type only matters when you begin to mix old with new. Old seals and old pumps are used to a certain type of fluid with certain characteristics.

It would be a neat test to completely rebuild an old pump 100%, then use a new style of fluid and see what happens.

I have a sneaking suspicion that old seals are conditioning for the type of fluid they've always seen. When you introduce something new into the system, the old seals shrink or swell or just simply give out. I'm betting that if a pump were rebuilt, a different outcome would take place as the seals have not seen any fluids yet.

I believe that Ford switched to metric hydros with the new era of vehicles. So that would be 99+ because that's when new Superduties got a facelift and a new generation began. I could be wrong though.

Nobody has actually posted up what type of fluid each of the hydroboosts and CII pumps require yet. Makes me wonder what's the hiccup with using a Chevy hydroboost if it's been cleaned/rebuilt (if a rebuild is even possible - i've never heard of that either).

 

Double post after some research...

Ford started to use Mercon V in the 2000's. I found a Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) that states all 97-2007 Super Dutys shall now use Mercon V instead of Mercon ATF.

Guess that means that all 97+ trucks use Mercon V in their power steering/hydroboost.

Here's the TSB from Ford (circa 2007):
http://www.revbase.com/BBBMotor/TSb/...dPdf?id=136391

Here was a really good link I read, not sure how accurate it is... but I'll summarize some stuff below: https://www.cartechbooks.com/techtips/autotransfluid

1967 - 1979 Trucks
Power Steering: Type F Fluid in all power steering systems.
Notes: Type F Fluid is not compatible with Mercon fluids (AT ALL). In 1977 Ford switched transmissions from Type F to Mercon fluid for their recommended/factory ATF.
Direct Quote: "Type F is not compatible with any other ATF. Specifically, it is not compatible with Mercon ATFs."

1997-2007 Trucks
Power Steering: Mercon V in all power steering systems (Pre-97 runs Mercon/Mercon ATF in power steering systems).
Notes: Mercon is not compatible with Type F, but nothing said about compatibility with Mercon V.
Direct Quote: "Mercon—introduced in 1987 and similar to Dexron II. Ford ceased licensing Mercon in 2007 and now recommends Mercon V for all transmissions that previously used Mercon. Mercon is a suitable replacement for Type H and Type CJ fluid, but not for Type F."

2008-2016 Trucks
Power Steering: Mercon LV in all power steering systems.
Notes: Mercon LV is not compatible with ANY OTHER ATF.
Direct Quote: "Mercon LV—the latest Ford ATF, it is factory fill in 2008 and later Fords. The LV stands for "low viscosity." It is a fully synthetic ATF. It is not compatible with earlier Mercon fluids, so it should neither be mixed with Mercon or Mercon V used to replace those fluids. It is not compatible with any other fluid, either."

1985-2005 Chevy Astro Van
Power Steering: Uses power steering fluid (could not find a GM link, but MANY threads discouraged the use of Dex II or Dex III in Chevy power steering units/hydroboosts).
Notes: N/A. My guess is that GM recommended power steering fluid is NOT compatible with other Ford fluids.




In summary... you must rebuild your power steering pump so that you can use the same fluid as the Hydroboost came with! Why? Because the fluid in your power steering system is very hard to drain 100%. Rebuilding the p/s pump is the only way to ensure your new seals don't come into contact with incompatible fluids.

Many of the above fluids are not compatible... No wonder why people are burning up power steering pumps or having squealing issues after they do a hydroboost conversion... Mixing fluids is a no-no!

 

One thing I can sadly say from experience, regarding power steering fluid: 'Do not $$ by mistake put p/s fluid in your brake system.'

Yes, end of long day, installing new brakes and hydro, proportioning valve, new master, soft lines, and EVERY seal, every soft line, every caliper, had to be replaced.

Oh, and how could I fail to mention self locking brakes. It was horrible.

I got my new 76 LTD p/s pump, and bracket, and should begin the install soon. I'm waiting for the braided line and fittings. Quite a pain figuring out what to buy.

 

All power steering fluid is really hydraulic fluid. Each manufacturer will put different friction modifiers and detergents to prevent various issues. Almost all of these additives are to assist the pump and are "generally" interchangeable with most ATF since it has the same job to execute. ATF is "generally" formulated the same but a main concern for ATF is heat dissipation.

NEVER put PSF in a brake system, brake fluid has a higher viscosity and is alcohol based which is not compatible with ATF/PSF which is petroleum based. ATF/PSF will eat and swell brake seals causing the fluid no path to return to the master cylinder and creating a brake lock situation.
As far as which PSF, it doesnt make a whole lot of difference but always go with the pumps recommendation rather than the steering gear, hydroboost etc. When adding a foreign component i.e; hydroboost to a non-hydroboost system you must look at fluid compatibility and properties.
I have never heard of Mercon and Type F being incompatible as far as mixing, never a good practice but not detrimental to the system. DO NOT mix Synthetic with petroleum based, in layman terms, like mixing water and oil.

Type F: Is designed for Transmissions using bronze components and has no friction modifiers other than what is inherent in the fluid itself especially compared to today's ATF/PSF. C6 transmission slipping? Flush and fill with Type F, much stronger shifts and less slippage, hence less heat generated.

Mercon/Dexron: Petroleum based with detergents and friction modifiers, good all around ATF/PSF

Mercon V: Synthetic based with detergents, friction modifiers and very good at dissipating heat. (This is what I soak all my rebuilt power steering pumps and gears to condition them, I ultimately fill with a good PSF (Mobile 1 or Mercon)

Also as far as return hoses etc: Whatever the power steering pump pushes the fluid has to go somewhere, so as long as you have a "T" or two return lines your reservoir will stay full, as long as your system is full of fluid. Larger lines or dual lines will only decrease pressure of returning fluid not volume.