Timing set retarded timing?
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Elder User
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: East Bend, Carolina, U.S
Timing set retarded timing?
I am getting the impression that the timing sets available at local parts stores are all set up with a retarded timing even for an older engine that would not have had this designed into it. Is this correct?
I seem to remember comparing two from different decades years ago and found the timing was retarded in the about 73 or 74 and newer sets and not from 72 on back. I suppose this would apply to non California emissions vehicles. So has something changed since my comparison about ten years ago?
I have looked around for detailed pictures of the difference but I found nothing so far. Anyone have details on this especially pictures?
I seem to remember comparing two from different decades years ago and found the timing was retarded in the about 73 or 74 and newer sets and not from 72 on back. I suppose this would apply to non California emissions vehicles. So has something changed since my comparison about ten years ago?
I have looked around for detailed pictures of the difference but I found nothing so far. Anyone have details on this especially pictures?
Elder User
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: Houston/Hope BC
Timing set retarded timing?
I have degreed my aftermarket cams with stock timing chains and they come in dead on the cam card. It is my belief (NOTE!) that all the detuning Ford did with this engine was in the grind. It isn't really imortant however, because the aftermarket cams are made to drop in with the stock gears. If not it would have a huge big print on the box that said "BUY OUR TIMING CHAIN SET!!!".
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Elder User
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: East Bend, Carolina, U.S
Timing set retarded timing?
The idea given to me is that Ford used the timing gear on the crankshaft to retard all of the emissions engines. I haven't seen one that used the cam grind to accomplish this myself, so I don't guess I really dont know where to look. I feel really ignorant about the whole thing.
If a comparison of a non emissions engine and an emissions designed engine could be made that would be interesting to see the findings posted here.
I guess the question now is which engines were affected and what retarded timing methods were used? The next chance I get I am going to go compare an original old timing set from a 72 engine and a new set for the same engine. Maybe I will see something there.
The V8 engines I am interested in most for this timing issue are the 289, 302, 351W, 351C and the FE engines since they were around before and during the emission changes. I know there are others, but these seem to be the most common V8s to me.
If a comparison of a non emissions engine and an emissions designed engine could be made that would be interesting to see the findings posted here.
I guess the question now is which engines were affected and what retarded timing methods were used? The next chance I get I am going to go compare an original old timing set from a 72 engine and a new set for the same engine. Maybe I will see something there.
The V8 engines I am interested in most for this timing issue are the 289, 302, 351W, 351C and the FE engines since they were around before and during the emission changes. I know there are others, but these seem to be the most common V8s to me.
Postmaster
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,882
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From: Nevada
Timing set retarded timing?
If its a 385 series 429 or 460, which was the first emissions engine designed by Ford and produced beginning in 1968, they were retarded 4 degrees by the timing gear set from 1972 through 1987. Its a common practice to install pre-72 timing gear sets on post-72 engines for improved performance.
Elder User
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 886
Likes: 1
From: Houston/Hope BC
Timing set retarded timing?
In any event, I think my degree wheel ran about $35.00 and (I hate to say it) a Chinese dial indicator and base was about 75.00. After jacking around with what people or MFG's represent and what the part man sells me, I finally got to the point where I don't trust anything I read or buy until I measure it myself. Best of luck to you.
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Elder User
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: East Bend, Carolina, U.S
Timing set retarded timing?
Thanks for the replies. I think I will do some checking in the individual engine forums. I really should get one of the degree wheels and a dial indicator to really know what I have when building an engine with an aftermarket cam and timing set.
I am planning on building a 351C this winter and then update my 428 next year. So this information is in order to plan ahead for these engines.
Thanks again!
I am planning on building a 351C this winter and then update my 428 next year. So this information is in order to plan ahead for these engines.
Thanks again!
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