which timing chain? and base timing question.
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which timing chain? and base timing question.
So last year the 400 in my 78 LTD decided it didnt like its timing chain.
Pulled the distributor and the rest of the front of the engine apart. All is good and sorted now but Im having 2 issues...
I know the stock timing is 10* retarded or such... where would I get a new chain with sprockets that arent retarded? Ive been told to go for aftermarket and Ive also been told I can just go for an oem chain from a earlier 70s 400 as they werent retarded. An oem chain for say a 74 is cheaper than aftermarket so very appealing to me. (I do get sprockets with the order of a chain right? The pictures and such on rockauto dont clarify)
just need to get her going again, Ill worry about a new cam when I get another job.
2nd issue Is base timing. I know, set the timing marks up and everything...as for the distributor, just shove it in (accounting for the oil pump of course) roughly where I had it with the rotor pointing to #1 with everything TDC and go from there?
I guess you could call this practice for when I do the one in the F150.
Pulled the distributor and the rest of the front of the engine apart. All is good and sorted now but Im having 2 issues...
I know the stock timing is 10* retarded or such... where would I get a new chain with sprockets that arent retarded? Ive been told to go for aftermarket and Ive also been told I can just go for an oem chain from a earlier 70s 400 as they werent retarded. An oem chain for say a 74 is cheaper than aftermarket so very appealing to me. (I do get sprockets with the order of a chain right? The pictures and such on rockauto dont clarify)
just need to get her going again, Ill worry about a new cam when I get another job.
2nd issue Is base timing. I know, set the timing marks up and everything...as for the distributor, just shove it in (accounting for the oil pump of course) roughly where I had it with the rotor pointing to #1 with everything TDC and go from there?
I guess you could call this practice for when I do the one in the F150.
Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2004
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Just order one for a 1970 351C. Or get an aftermarket double roller. You can try to just put the dist. back in where it came out from but It can be confusing because the gears are spiral cut, it will turn as you are dropping it in. If you have any trouble, let us know.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: New-brunswick,Canada
I got mine from comp cam double roller chain -4, 0, +4. I set it at 0 degree or straight up. I live in canada and order from comp cam from US and it cost me arround 70$, not bad for a good timming chain. I got the double chain the cam sproket and the crank sproket.
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Thanks guys. Ill just go with the OEM one for the 70 351C for now. My budget is super low so I cant afford a double roller. But when I get my new cam (hopefully later this year) Ill upgrade to the double roller.
I know about the spiral gears...lol. So just good ole trial and error. Awesome. haha.
Any tips for getting the oil pump drive in position?
I know about the spiral gears...lol. So just good ole trial and error. Awesome. haha.
Any tips for getting the oil pump drive in position?
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oh look its two months later and Ive finally gotten around to this.
So I ordered what I assumed to be the 351C timing set and it doesnt fit. Its too small. Did I inadvertently buy the 351W set? or did I get em backwards?
Ive always gotten confused between the W and the C and which one is the big block and the small block. So when I got to the parts counter I ordered the one for a 1970 351 small block.
This is for a 1978 351M/400.
So I ordered what I assumed to be the 351C timing set and it doesnt fit. Its too small. Did I inadvertently buy the 351W set? or did I get em backwards?
Ive always gotten confused between the W and the C and which one is the big block and the small block. So when I got to the parts counter I ordered the one for a 1970 351 small block.
This is for a 1978 351M/400.
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ok now Ive run into other questions...
Is the retarded timing built in to the cam or the sprocket?
Comp cams says this:
"Beginning in MAY 1973, Ford retarded camshaft timing by 6 degrees on all 335-series engines (except the 351C 4V) to meet emission control regulations. Camshaft timing was retarded by changing the keyway offset from the alignment mark on the crankshaft timing sprocket."
So in theory if if I get a pre- such and such timing set it will STILL be retarded...
Please someone help me out here.
Is the retarded timing built in to the cam or the sprocket?
Comp cams says this:
"Beginning in MAY 1973, Ford retarded camshaft timing by 6 degrees on all 335-series engines (except the 351C 4V) to meet emission control regulations. Camshaft timing was retarded by changing the keyway offset from the alignment mark on the crankshaft timing sprocket."
So in theory if if I get a pre- such and such timing set it will STILL be retarded...
Please someone help me out here.
Junior User
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 69
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From: Perris, CA
Sounds like you did get a set for the 351 windsor. When you think 351 ford small block that's what comes to mind first. You have to specify "cleveland" motor when you buy it. All 400s were set retarded from the factory so if you want oem you need a pre-whatever year 351 cleveland set specifically.
Comp cams link belt set is only $33 on summit COMP Cams 3221 - COMP Cams High Energy Timing Sets - Overview - SummitRacing.com
Comp cams link belt set is only $33 on summit COMP Cams 3221 - COMP Cams High Energy Timing Sets - Overview - SummitRacing.com
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Moderator
Joined: Nov 2007
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From: Denver Metro Area, CO
Have any links or anything to substantiate this?
Everything I'm aware of says the 400 wasn't retarded until MY1973 at the earliest:
M-Block 351M/400 History
Rumors & Myths
Everything I'm aware of says the 400 wasn't retarded until MY1973 at the earliest:
M-Block 351M/400 History
Rumors & Myths
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Elder User
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From: Tanilba bay NSW Australia
X2 on what CTubutis said. The retarded thing is only mentioned for some years and different between the cars and trucks. I would also suggest that you did get the windsor style when asking for the 351 small block. Conversely in Australia if you mention a 351 you are Cleveland.
If you knew the centerline of the cam you could use that method (if you had a multi keyway jobbie) and adjust it to suit-there is a tech article on comp cams website detailing it effectively. Maybe there is a cam grinder locally who could dial your cam up for you and check??
If you knew the centerline of the cam you could use that method (if you had a multi keyway jobbie) and adjust it to suit-there is a tech article on comp cams website detailing it effectively. Maybe there is a cam grinder locally who could dial your cam up for you and check??
Moderator
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From: Denver Metro Area, CO
I doubt he'll be back to give sources for the information he presented as fact; statistically, he makes 0.04 posts per day and could just be a troll.
There is a lot of credible & verifiable information out there stating otherwise (see the sticky), so we can just write this off as misinformation, I guess.
There is a lot of credible & verifiable information out there stating otherwise (see the sticky), so we can just write this off as misinformation, I guess.
Moderator
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 22,415
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From: Denver Metro Area, CO
Nah, not really.
I just try to keep things accurate to avoid:
1) Spreading misinformation ("I read it on the Internet, so it must be true!"), and
2) Sending the OP (and others who find this later, in the archives) down the wrong path with bad information.
As for (1) above, if you Google enough, you can usually find somebody saying anything you want to hear - the Earth is flat, the Mustang was made by Chevrolet, whatever.
I hate that.
There are some good & knowledgeable people here, many of whom are aged 50+ years with lots of experience who also like to keep things accurate.
Thanks for coming back! I hate it when people who have been on FTE for years but who have only a handful of posts pop up in some random thread and give opinions & misinformation that vastly deviates from 1) the truth, and 2) the general overall feelings of everyone else. (Not trying to say this is you, that was just a rhetorical statement.)
I just try to keep things accurate to avoid:
1) Spreading misinformation ("I read it on the Internet, so it must be true!"), and
2) Sending the OP (and others who find this later, in the archives) down the wrong path with bad information.
As for (1) above, if you Google enough, you can usually find somebody saying anything you want to hear - the Earth is flat, the Mustang was made by Chevrolet, whatever.
I hate that.
There are some good & knowledgeable people here, many of whom are aged 50+ years with lots of experience who also like to keep things accurate.
Thanks for coming back! I hate it when people who have been on FTE for years but who have only a handful of posts pop up in some random thread and give opinions & misinformation that vastly deviates from 1) the truth, and 2) the general overall feelings of everyone else. (Not trying to say this is you, that was just a rhetorical statement.)
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