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Holley 4180 Issues

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Old Nov 19, 2016 | 03:07 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by ArdWrknTrk
351 4V HO's ALL came with the 4180 carb...
Sure, but they never came in bricknose trucks correct?

Edit, I just noticed it's a F250LD. Wouldn't that guarantee it was fuel injected stock.
 
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Old Nov 19, 2016 | 04:37 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by BruteFord
Sure, but they never came in bricknose trucks correct?.
They did for the 1987 model year.

I'm not sure what the Canadian regs were, but in the US you had two carbureted options 351 HO and 460.
​​​​​​​I can't make out the rear axle on my phone.
 
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Old Nov 19, 2016 | 11:08 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by BruteFord
Wait, it's a 351, clearly ArdWrknTrk and I had been assuming it is an 87 with a 460. The only model of bricknose that came stock with a carb at all let alone a 4180. Is it not stock or is this some weird Canada thing? So ignore my carb recommendations, they'd be too big.
lol, okay. I'm looking for something around 600/650 cfm i think.

Originally Posted by BruteFord
As for the oil pressure, very likely a gauge issue, not actual high oil pressure. It's near impossible to actually have high oil pressure. Not only is there a pressure relief valve in the pump that limits pressure. But if the pressure ever got really high it would very likely break the oil pump drive shaft leaving you with no oil pressure.
The gauge does as it moves over the entire range, maybe it's not reading accurately though. The fuel gauge also doesn't work.

Originally Posted by BruteFord
And yes DO NOT "pull it off adjust the floats so it's getting some more fuel" float level on Holley carbs is meant to be set with the carb on the vehicle. On the passenger side of the float bowls should be two brass plugs with flat screwdriver slots. With the fuel pump running, or even with the engine running you remove those plugs and adjust the float level so it's right at the base of the opening. Raise the level till it trickles out if it's running, or till it splashes out a bit if you bump the truck with your hips.
I adjusted both floats and they seem better now. The rear was close. The front (primary) was not close and was very rich. I backed it off until it's trickling.



Originally Posted by BruteFord
As for the stutter and stammer/backfire a little before it stalls out when warm if I had to guess the float level is too high causing too much fuel. The backfire, is it a fiery bang or an air sound puff? You know how a toilet works right, a float, a valve at the bottom and a overflow tube? Carbs work very similar, if the float level is too high it will basically overflow fuel into the engine causing it to be too rich. This the engine tolerates more when it's cold, but once warmed up it can't.
Here's a video of the sound. You should be able to hear it pretty often.

Originally Posted by BruteFord
This could potentially add fuel to the oil as well, though that would be rather extreme.

Easy enough to find out if this is happening, two ways. Either check the float level by removing that plug, or the best confirmation is by looking down the carb. Get the fuel pump going and look down the carb, if the float level is too high the boosters(round things in the center) may be dripping fuel and the throttle plates will be wet.

Another potential source of extra fuel would be a blown power valve(PV). The power valve can be blown by a strong backfire, if it's blown then it stays in an open condition. In the open condition it releases more fuel into the engine. The best test to see if the PV is blown is to try and stall the engine by leaning it out with the idle adjustment screws, if you can stall it that way then the PV is fine.

I will check that later. I'm just waiting for it to cool down a bit and eat some lunch. I drove it down the road a bit and noticed some surging under light/medium load. So I think I can adjust the floats a little more and pull more fuel out.
I'm also going to check the timing because a friend changed the distributor cap although he's never done it before, so it's possible that that is off.
 
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Old Nov 19, 2016 | 11:20 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by BruteFord
Sure, but they never came in bricknose trucks correct?

Edit, I just noticed it's a F250LD. Wouldn't that guarantee it was fuel injected stock.
Originally Posted by ArdWrknTrk
They did for the 1987 model year.

I'm not sure what the Canadian regs were, but in the US you had two carbureted options 351 HO and 460.
​​​​​​​I can't make out the rear axle on my phone.
1987 Was the last year of carburetors. Ard is correct in that only 351 and 460's had carbs only on the 87's. Everything after was fuel injected.
 
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Old Nov 19, 2016 | 11:40 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by ArdWrknTrk
They did for the 1987 model year.

I'm not sure what the Canadian regs were, but in the US you had two carbureted options 351 HO and 460.
​​​​​​​I can't make out the rear axle on my phone.
Originally Posted by frozenmoustache
1987 Was the last year of carburetors. Ard is correct in that only 351 and 460's had carbs only on the 87's. Everything after was fuel injected.
Well ya learn something new every day. I thought it was only 460s and that they could only get away with it cause of the high GVWR of the HD trucks.
 
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Old Nov 19, 2016 | 11:51 AM
  #36  
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Sounds like you're making progress.

The fuel gauge not working right on these trucks is downright normal. Oil pressure reading high isn't but I still wouldn't sweat it, look into the gauge first.

If I had to guess the exhaust sound is from being too rich, FWIW you can smell rich in the exhaust, hard to describe a smell, but it will burn your eyes more.

The carbed 351 thing, I just might have to keep an eye out for one. I always figured a 351/ZF5 combo in a HD would be a nice little unit.
 
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Old Nov 19, 2016 | 12:27 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by BruteFord
Sounds like you're making progress.

The fuel gauge not working right on these trucks is downright normal. Oil pressure reading high isn't but I still wouldn't sweat it, look into the gauge first.

If I had to guess the exhaust sound is from being too rich, FWIW you can smell rich in the exhaust, hard to describe a smell, but it will burn your eyes more.

The carbed 351 thing, I just might have to keep an eye out for one. I always figured a 351/ZF5 combo in a HD would be a nice little unit.
Because of the transfer tube would I have to keep going from one side to the other? Or just set it once and forget it?

And I do think that it smells a little rich, although I'm worried about pulling too much fuel out and having it run to lean...

And if I didn't drive this thing in traffic I would love a ZF5. But I can't justify having a manual and an excessively large left calf muscle to sit in traffic and occasionally towing a decent sized trailer
 
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Old Nov 19, 2016 | 01:20 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by frozenmoustache
And I do think that it smells a little rich, although I'm worried about pulling too much fuel out and having it run to lean...
K think we need to talk a bit about carb adjustment, but it's been a while with me on the 4180 and it's specifics, maybe ArdWrknTrk can fill in the blanks.

I bring this up cause you appear to be using float level as a way to adjust mixture, this is incorrect. As long as float level is not to high and causing the other problems I mentioned earlier it should not be used to adjust mixture.

Emission/factory Holleys vary a fair amount in how idle is adjusted, where the screw is, which way to turn, if it can be adjusted at all without modification, etc. IIRC on the 4180 the idle mixture screws are in the base plate vs. on the side of the metering block like most Holleys, and factory the access to them is plugged.(to me good reason not to keep it) Sense you rebuilt this sucker I'm assuming you know what they are and have removed the plugs.

Anyway, as long as you don't have symptoms of too high a float level it's time to move to the idle mixture screws. Turn them in slowly finding the point where idle just starts to slow. From there for you I'd turn them in all the way counting the turns in 1/4 turn increments. This is just to make sure you can stall the engine by turning them in, and counting the turns so you can get it back where you were easily.

So once you find the point where turning them in further starts to slow the engine turn each out a half turn, that should be just about right for good mixture and drivability.
 
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Old Nov 19, 2016 | 01:47 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by BruteFord
K think we need to talk a bit about carb adjustment, but it's been a while with me on the 4180 and it's specifics, maybe ArdWrknTrk can fill in the blanks.

I bring this up cause you appear to be using float level as a way to adjust mixture, this is incorrect. As long as float level is not to high and causing the other problems I mentioned earlier it should not be used to adjust mixture.

Emission/factory Holleys vary a fair amount in how idle is adjusted, where the screw is, which way to turn, if it can be adjusted at all without modification, etc. IIRC on the 4180 the idle mixture screws are in the base plate vs. on the side of the metering block like most Holleys, and factory the access to them is plugged.(to me good reason not to keep it) Sense you rebuilt this sucker I'm assuming you know what they are and have removed the plugs.

Anyway, as long as you don't have symptoms of too high a float level it's time to move to the idle mixture screws. Turn them in slowly finding the point where idle just starts to slow. From there for you I'd turn them in all the way counting the turns in 1/4 turn increments. This is just to make sure you can stall the engine by turning them in, and counting the turns so you can get it back where you were easily.

So once you find the point where turning them in further starts to slow the engine turn each out a half turn, that should be just about right for good mixture and drivability.

I did turn out/in the main idle screw located on the side, and that only sped the idle up, but wouldn't drop it down(EDIT: I NOW KNOW THIS IS THE HOT IDLE SPEED SCREW).
So that leaves me with the idle mixture screws right?
I looked up the PCV in my Haynes manual and will look to see if that system is compromised at all. The factory air/emissions pump has been disconnected for some reason so maybe that has something to do with it as well?
Although the previous owner didn't mention anything about it running poorly. But that wouldn't be the first time someone lied while selling a car I guess.

Edit: Took the carb off again to get to the idle adjustment screws and they were backed out all the way. I didn't do a full rebuild; just fixed what I thought was broken. I've adjusted the idle since and I think it's better. But honestly I have no freakin' idea, I thought j fixed it the first time. It seems to sound better but that popping/air noise is still present. I think it might be a slight manifold leak? I don't know. If it's not fixed it's going to a garage.
 
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Old Nov 20, 2016 | 07:46 AM
  #40  
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Does it make this popping sound on trailing throttle while driving?
Does it clear up at higher rpms?

These are symptoms of a ruptured power valve.
If you think so, then look down the primary bores of the carb at idle and see if the boosters are dribbling.
 
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Old Nov 20, 2016 | 04:13 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by ArdWrknTrk
Does it make this popping sound on trailing throttle while driving?
Does it clear up at higher rpms?

These are symptoms of a ruptured power valve.
If you think so, then look down the primary bores of the carb at idle and see if the boosters are dribbling.
Boosters don't dribble with a busted PV.
 
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Old Nov 21, 2016 | 11:31 AM
  #42  
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Blew a brake line on Sunday too late to get the parts so I wasn't able to see if it was fixed or not. So it could still be the PV but I won't know until I drive it for a while... Kind of frustrating.
 
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