I keep wondering this question. Why go through all the trouble to find all the correct brackets to continue running V-Belts. I seems to me that a serpentine belt is a better choice. Other than certain engine that were never equipped with this. Any body have any thoughts on this?


Brian

 

I am curious as well.

A serpentine belt could easily be installed without having to get a reverse rotation water pump or any of the major pulley brackets that make a serpentine system so expensive

Basically just replace your Veebelt Palese with serpentine pulleys and run the correct length of serpentine belt.


I have considered doing this myself to replace my single V-belt set up. Or trying to find a dual V-belt set up. Seems to me that a six or seven rib serpentine belt would have more surface area and traction than a single 3/8 V-belt.

 

302/351W engines would be easiest to accomplish this on, using factory parts, since the 5.0L and 5.8L engines were designed with serpentine.

240/300 inline sixes MAY have at least one complication with a factory 4.9L serpentine setup. There's a threaded hole on the forward, left side of the head on the 4.9L engines for the serpentine bracket to bolt to the head. The older 240s/300s do not have the bolt hole. --will the 4.9L serpentine bracketry on an older 240/300 work just fine if this particular bolt wasn't present? I don't know.

 

Serpentine would be better. They don't have to be as tight. Less stress on the W/P etc. I think they stretch more than a V belt. Which is why Ford always uses a belt tensioner instead of a solid adjustment. With only one exception that I can think of. Ford has usually used only one belt to run everything. There are exceptions like a supercharger, dual alternators,etc. So therefore something has to run on the back side of the belt to make one continuous run. Ford always does this with the W/P. Since there is not the same surface area to grab a pulley on the back side of the belt, they always wrap the belt approx. 3/4 around the W/P pulley. I have never seen a Ford W/P pulley that was grooved. So a reverse rotation W/P would be necessary.

 

I think a serpentine belt system also has less friction than a V belt system. That equates to using less power.

There are companies that make aftermarket serpentine systems, but they're pricey.

 

79-85 with either the 302, 351W or 351M (Canadian cars used the 351W continuosly from 79 to 85 in non PI applications and the 351M till 81 or 82) LTD Crown Victoria and Mercury Grand Marquis used a serpentine system that did not have a reverse rotation water pump(AC equipped cars had 2 belts), It was an idiot simple system with no tensioner. The adjustment was on the alternator and drove the WP and PS pump. the other belt adjustment on an idler pully with for the AC and Smog pump (not all Canadian cars had smog pumps.)
on an idler pully with AC, (AC equipped cars had 2 belts). You installed the belt and had to adjust it once after it stretched initially and then did not look at for another 50kK+ miles. Pic below.

Ford was the first manufacturer to use the serpentine system and early 80's installations where nothing more than a V belt system converted to use a serpentine belt.

Any V belt set up can be converted to serpentine with a combination of aftermarket and OEM pulleys utilizing the original V belt accessory brackets.

It can be lot of of trial and error but it can be done.

 

Thank you for your thoughts. You have confirmed that the eggs inside my scull are not completely scrambled yet.

 

I am totally shocked this pattern worked. The belt is only touching about a 1/3 of the crank pulley. And the tiny bit of area it is touching the W/P pulley. Seems like there would be belt squeal coming from the crank pulley when you Rev the engine and belt slippage on the W/P pulley. Causing the engine to run warmer than it should.

 

Just look at early V belts they only touched as much of the crank pulley. And had less friction surface to boot.

The water pump requires almost no hp to turn and has more than enough contact to do it's job, also the WP pulley is grooved in this set up. Crank contact is over 90°. You also have to remember this system is only turning the Alt the PS pump and the WP on one belt and the AC and smog on the other Belt.

You are used to seeing the newer systems that use one belt to spin it all. The AC compressor is the biggest accessory load on the motor and uses more HP than the PS ALT and WP combined. On the new system the belts drive everything and need to have more crank contact so they do not slip. Also the wrap around on the WP is not due to necessity but due to function on how the belts have to be routed to insure adequate crank pulley contact. With the single belt you have twice the HP being transmitted by a single belt system than you did on this twin belt system.


I have owned 4 Ltd/Mercury Marquis (the Lincoln town car also used this system Forgot that originally) with this system on it and it was far more reliable than any system with an automatic tensioner, no belt slipping (even when soaking wet) no belt glazing, and since the belts were not being bent in 2 opposite directions going around pulleys the belts are incredibly long lived.

This set up required just one adjustment after a belt change and you did not look at again. Plus no tensioners to crap out and the belt change was done with a single 9/16" wench in about 3 mins. As far as I'm concerned it was the best serpentine system ever fitted to a vehicle, it was so good because it was just V belt set up converted to a serpentine belt.

My buddy James modified this system for a manual rack on his 351W powered Fox body Zephyr he just removed the PS pump and installed a shorter belt and it was light years ahead of the V belts he was running I think he has had the same belt on his car for over 20 years now.

Also the parts between the 302 and the 351W all interchange, and there were 2 Alt brackets one for big case Alt's as used in the PI applications and one for small case Alt's
In Canada the 351W was available in civilian models up until 1986 and till 91 in PI units In fact most of the 85's in Canada are were fitted with the 351W. So this set up is easy to find.

Also in Canada the 351M continued on in the Panther cars (LTD GM TC) till about 82 and they were fitted with a similar serpentine system. So you can factory swap a serpentine system on to a 400 with no fuss. But it has been many years since I seen a 335 series powered Panther and they were not common initially anyway. Plus the M was a pig of an engine and most all it seems were scrapped in the the early 90's

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Basically any Ford engine can be converted to serpentine utilizing the original V belt brackets and Junk yard pulley's for the Alt WP, PS and Crank (Excepting maybe the Y block and 223) the FE will require a modified OEM Crank Pulley or an after market one. At most you may have to swap the WP for one with shorter shaft. But the General used similar systems early on with higher off set WP pulleys than Ford did that can be made to work in a pinch. Heck the General had an early serpentine set up using 3 belts. They literally just replaced the V belts with serpentine belts.


There is a crap load of crank pulleys Alt pulleys and PS pulleys to chose from over the last 37 years for retrofitting a swap.
So it may not be necessary to spend big bucks on a custom serpentine system, as you can most likely source the bits you need from the wrecking yard.

 

I'll have to believe the experience you have with it. The trouble is, if someone here in the States were to do as you describe they will have to go to Canada to get the grooved W/P pulley. I have never seen one here nor the belt set up like you posted. Had to be an "Export Only" gig. Maybe even Canada only.

 

It's fitted to any Panther chassis car LTD/Crown Vic, Merc Marquis, Lincoln Town Car with the 302 or 351W and 351M (Canada only).
Just surf the net Ebay Craigs list autotrader etc you will quickly see they are all fitted with that set up.

For Example
89 Lincoln Towncar Lincoln Town Car Executive Series | eBay
85 Crown Vic wagon Ford Crown Victoria Station Wagon | eBay

Just as some useless information the Panther based Crown Vic and Merc Marquis were Canadian domestic production as all of them were built at the Ford St Thomas plant in London Ont . The US was actually the export market for these cars.

Addendum here is You tube Video of a 351W CV with out AC that has been stripped down using that serpentine system, you see can how simple and clean an install it is.

 

I already have 2 of these setups. Taken off mid 80's crown vic 351w and 5.0 This is why this post got started.