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New 3/4 ton

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  #1  
Old 09-19-2016, 03:23 PM
kpchambers
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New 3/4 ton

I posed a while back about the new 3/4 tons and whether it would be appropriate for my business--cabinetry/kitchen & bath remodeling. I decided to go with the 250 because the weight of my trailer would be over 75% of the max towing capacity of the F150. I had also decided on Lariat trim with a 6.2L and FX4. Not only will this be my work truck, but also double my family hauler, kid taxi and everyday A-to-B machine, so I wanted a nicer interior package.


Now the question that's creeping into my mind is whether or not I should buy a diesel. I know the 6.2L will handle the weight just fine, but it's the mileage + towing that has me worried. If my prediction is correct, I will have put 35,000 miles on my 5.4 F-150 by the end of the year. I don't see me driving any less over the next 10 years but I do see me driving with heavier loads and farther distances as my business expands.


I've driven 3/4 and 1 ton trucks before and I know how well they tow, I have just never personally owned a Super Duty and I don't have a ton of background with them. Like I said, the 6.2L will handle my trailer just fine, but do you think a 6.2 could also handle the 30-40k miles per year for about 8-10 years? Do you think a diesel would be better suited for this? I'm a little shy of the price and cost of the PSD but if it will be a better investment, then so be it.


What say you?


 
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Old 09-19-2016, 03:28 PM
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You will not regret the diesel. Better towing, better resale, last longer. I bought a gas 3/4 ton in 2002 and traded in 2004 for the diesel. I took a bath on the trade, I will own a diesel from now on. And I only pull a boat, utility trailer, and fifth wheel.

Even if I did not have the fifth wheel, get the diesel.

My brother in law has a lumber yard. Has had gas engines for years, just got a diesel, and can't understand why he waited.
 
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Old 09-19-2016, 03:37 PM
LEDman
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Originally Posted by Fowlthing View Post
You will not regret the diesel. Better towing, better resale, last longer. I bought a gas 3/4 ton in 2002 and traded in 2004 for the diesel. I took a bath on the trade, I will own a diesel from now on. And I only pull a boat, utility trailer, and fifth wheel.

Even if I did not have the fifth wheel, get the diesel.

My brother in law has a lumber yard. Has had gas engines for years, just got a diesel, and can't understand why he waited.
WHAT HE SAID!!

My business is buying me and my partner a new truck this year. He just bought the loaded LIMITED '16 F150 and it is a beautiful rig, but it is not a truck. I've ordered a '17 Lariat with a bench seat and guarantee that mine will sell for more in 5 years because of the diesel.

Plus, the few times that I will haul a really heavy load, the larger truck gives a lot more confidence.
 
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  #4  
Old 09-19-2016, 04:10 PM
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Went to a gas and can't wait to get my diesel back. Go diesel and don't look back!
 
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  #5  
Old 09-20-2016, 01:58 AM
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Originally Posted by kpchambers View Post
I posed a while back about the new 3/4 tons and whether it would be appropriate for my business--cabinetry/kitchen & bath remodeling. I decided to go with the 250 because the weight of my trailer would be over 75% of the max towing capacity of the F150. I had also decided on Lariat trim with a 6.2L and FX4. Not only will this be my work truck, but also double my family hauler, kid taxi and everyday A-to-B machine, so I wanted a nicer interior package.


Now the question that's creeping into my mind is whether or not I should buy a diesel. I know the 6.2L will handle the weight just fine, but it's the mileage + towing that has me worried. If my prediction is correct, I will have put 35,000 miles on my 5.4 F-150 by the end of the year. I don't see me driving any less over the next 10 years but I do see me driving with heavier loads and farther distances as my business expands.


I've driven 3/4 and 1 ton trucks before and I know how well they tow, I have just never personally owned a Super Duty and I don't have a ton of background with them. Like I said, the 6.2L will handle my trailer just fine, but do you think a 6.2 could also handle the 30-40k miles per year for about 8-10 years? Do you think a diesel would be better suited for this? I'm a little shy of the price and cost of the PSD but if it will be a better investment, then so be it.


What say you?


Diesel, diesel, diesel, did I say DIESEL!

As much as you drive, I would go with the diesel. It will take a LONG time to recoup the 8600 bucks of the Diesel engine via better fuel mileage but with the miles you are driving a gas rig isn't going to last you the 10 years you are wanting out of it at 35k miles a year without major costs. The diesel will AND will pay you back on resale at that time should you sell it OR simply keep running it.

5 mpg difference in towing economy for a single year on a vehicle driving 35k miles at an average fuel cost of $2.50/gallon will nearly save you $3000. At year #3 your Diesel engine is paid for and year #4,5,6, & so on is another $3000 in your pocket. My vote is on the Diesel engine for the better towing mpg than the gas rig over the high # of miles you are driving and the longevity you are needing it to last. Good luck with whatever you choose!
 
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  #6  
Old 09-20-2016, 06:39 AM
rocket_scientist
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I like diesels personally, and it's true you will get better fuel economy, which could eventually pay for the extra cost... however, if you have any kind of problem with injectors or high pressure fuel pump and you are looking at repair bills easily in the thousands. Just something to consider.
 
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Old 09-20-2016, 07:35 AM
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Diesel payback is not as cut and dried as it once was. The initial cost has risen since the early days. The fuel cost differential has changed from being an average of $.70 cheaper to a $.50 premium. The mileage used to be better mty and substantially better loaded. Today, the gas trucks are doing better mty mileage figures but loaded gas cannot match the power and efficiency. The payback is a long ways out and unless there are substantial loaded miles may never be reached, even considering that 15 years ago one could break even on the cost at around 100K miles through normal driving and 25% loaded. And that is all barring any expensive diesel repair. The 6.0 spoiled these figures with decreased mileage and high repair costs. The overall performance and longevity of the 6.7 is just coming to light and the reliability and performance are back up there. It remains to be seen if they will consistently run over 500K miles like the 6.9 and 7.3 Navistar/Ford engines. The added trade in value I consider a bonus.

This all being said the pleasure and enjoyment of driving a diesel cannot be compared to any other experience to a true driver of trucks. The harder it is worked the more the engine "becomes one" with its' master. A long loaded pull on a 7% grade with both feet flat on the floor can be exhilarating. Hearing the fan come on during a long pull and watching the gauges rise and the feeling of superiority over the others struggling to get their loads over the top while the click click click of the turnsignal marks another overtaking cannot be replaced with any other feeling, to the true aficionado of the diesel engine.

By age eight one of my close childhood friends (and still today) and I used to watch the steady stream of gravel trucks pulling a minor grade in front of his house and draw extremely detailed and accurate pictures of each brand and model day after day. I cut my teeth at age 14 with my friend when we would "borrow" a couple of old twin stick Mack trucks in a local gravel mine. After mastering the "5 and a 3" we moved on to the Euclids. Cats and Payloaders. Never hurting anything and ever mindful of their proper operation and even hauling a couple of loads once to the gravel sorter and washer. We would then carefully line the trucks up at the shop, which was our downfall. The bumpers in a straight line with each other caught the attention of the yardmaster who trapped us on one of our Sunday "work" days. Although furious his comments were something like: "the *******s who work for me would never line 'em up like that. Git yur little asses outta here and come back when yur 18 and I'll give you a real job!" Of course we continued to visit "the pit" with its' crystal clear blue ponds for swimming and the smooth as silk "mud pit" where the wash plant discharged. And of course by then we were ready to change up to friends of the female persuasion, often skinny dipping and mud wrestling in the raw then diving off the banks into that clear water with streaks of mud like jet trails behind us. The summertime of youth.

But the lure of the diesel had been instilled and at age 18 I had my first level of CDL and after my service in the Navy I got my class A CDL and proceeded to let the diesels roar for 10 years on the road. The diesel fuel permeated my blood during my early adventures and it still does. The cost of a PSD is nothing compared to the satisfaction of hearing the injector knock as it fires into life. While some complain of the turbo lag I relish in the rise in power as we settle in for a nice pull. The whine of the turbo and now, finally on the pickups, watching the boost correspond with the whine and the feeling of the engine retarder on the descent all feed the deep seated love of the diesels. Maybe it is not for everyone but it certainly fills a need, an addiction if you will, which all started with the sweet smell of diesel exhaust so many years ago.
 
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  #8  
Old 09-20-2016, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Rasalas View Post
...hearing the injector knock as it fires into life.

...turbo lag...

...the whine of the turbo...
I noted a couple things you won't have on the 6.7L.

I drove one this past weekend, and compared to my 6.4L, this 6.7L is in a whole new leage. It's quiet, has very little lag, and you cannot even hear the turbo.

It's amazing how far diesel engines have come in just the last 7-8 years.
 
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Old 09-20-2016, 07:50 AM
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As long as your not using the diesel in the city with stop and go traffic or short trips, it should be fine.
These new diesels do not like idling or short trips. They like running down the road.
 
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Old 09-20-2016, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by fordmantpw View Post
I noted a couple things you won't have on the 6.7L.

I drove one this past weekend, and compared to my 6.4L, this 6.7L is in a whole new leage. It's quiet, has very little lag, and you cannot even hear the turbo.

It's amazing how far diesel engines have come in just the last 7-8 years.
Thanks Tom, you are taking the fantasy out of my fantasy truck. I recognize the new quiet and performance and all that being said I still love my 7.3 for many reasons. LOL
 
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Old 09-20-2016, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Rasalas View Post
Thanks Tom, you are taking the fantasy out of my fantasy truck. I recognize the new quiet and performance and all that being said I still love my 7.3 for many reasons. LOL
Don't get me wrong, there is something about that diesel clatter, and the whine of the turbos, but the 6.7L will make you forget about all of that.

Now, back to looking for pennies on the ground to save up for mine...
 
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  #12  
Old 09-20-2016, 08:10 AM
Spamfritter
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Originally Posted by Rasalas View Post
Diesel payback is not as cut and dried as it once was. The initial cost has risen since the early days. The fuel cost differential has changed from being an average of $.70 cheaper to a $.50 premium. The mileage used to be better mty and substantially better loaded. Today, the gas trucks are doing better mty mileage figures but loaded gas cannot match the power and efficiency. The payback is a long ways out and unless there are substantial loaded miles may never be reached, even considering that 15 years ago one could break even on the cost at around 100K miles through normal driving and 25% loaded. And that is all barring any expensive diesel repair. The 6.0 spoiled these figures with decreased mileage and high repair costs. The overall performance and longevity of the 6.7 is just coming to light and the reliability and performance are back up there. It remains to be seen if they will consistently run over 500K miles like the 6.9 and 7.3 Navistar/Ford engines. The added trade in value I consider a bonus.

This all being said the pleasure and enjoyment of driving a diesel cannot be compared to any other experience to a true driver of trucks. The harder it is worked the more the engine "becomes one" with its' master. A long loaded pull on a 7% grade with both feet flat on the floor can be exhilarating. Hearing the fan come on during a long pull and watching the gauges rise and the feeling of superiority over the others struggling to get their loads over the top while the click click click of the turnsignal marks another overtaking cannot be replaced with any other feeling, to the true aficionado of the diesel engine.

By age eight one of my close childhood friends (and still today) and I used to watch the steady stream of gravel trucks pulling a minor grade in front of his house and draw extremely detailed and accurate pictures of each brand and model day after day. I cut my teeth at age 14 with my friend when we would "borrow" a couple of old twin stick Mack trucks in a local gravel mine. After mastering the "5 and a 3" we moved on to the Euclids. Cats and Payloaders. Never hurting anything and ever mindful of their proper operation and even hauling a couple of loads once to the gravel sorter and washer. We would then carefully line the trucks up at the shop, which was our downfall. The bumpers in a straight line with each other caught the attention of the yardmaster who trapped us on one of our Sunday "work" days. Although furious his comments were something like: "the *******s who work for me would never line 'em up like that. Git yur little asses outta here and come back when yur 18 and I'll give you a real job!" Of course we continued to visit "the pit" with its' crystal clear blue ponds for swimming and the smooth as silk "mud pit" where the wash plant discharged. And of course by then we were ready to change up to friends of the female persuasion, often skinny dipping and mud wrestling in the raw then diving off the banks into that clear water with streaks of mud like jet trails behind us. The summertime of youth.

But the lure of the diesel had been instilled and at age 18 I had my first level of CDL and after my service in the Navy I got my class A CDL and proceeded to let the diesels roar for 10 years on the road. The diesel fuel permeated my blood during my early adventures and it still does. The cost of a PSD is nothing compared to the satisfaction of hearing the injector knock as it fires into life. While some complain of the turbo lag I relish in the rise in power as we settle in for a nice pull. The whine of the turbo and now, finally on the pickups, watching the boost correspond with the whine and the feeling of the engine retarder on the descent all feed the deep seated love of the diesels. Maybe it is not for everyone but it certainly fills a need, an addiction if you will, which all started with the sweet smell of diesel exhaust so many years ago.
I agree. This is the point I was going to make. That said, I did some math on this in another thread and even with the lower diesel fuel prices in my area vs. gas, it would take 10+ years to break even on diesel without counting oil changes, filters or diesel exhaust fluid. I broke down fuel costs using the highest and lowest numbers from fuelly.com between diesel and gas. I also used the approximate figures forum members reported for towing between the two. While you can't predict the exact fuel costs or fuel economy, the general calculation suggested that even with towing it would take more than 400,000 miles of usage to break even. The diesel options are just so damn expensive these days. Obviously I'm speaking of MSRP, but the diesel option on the 2016 F-250 was $8,460. For 2017 the cost is $8,550. Many people were quick in the other thread to point out that no one pays MSRP, but if you financed your vehicle, you paid well more than MSRP or close to MSRP even with 0% financing.

While the diesel trucks do command a higher price on the used market, you don't even get 50% of the diesel cost back in the examples people have thrown around. Used values are hard to pin down as well given how arbitrary they can be. Rarely are two trucks identical enough to simply say "diesel is worth $3,500 more" on the used market. Checking around it seems that diesel trucks are worth about a $2,000 or so premium over gasoline engines. The matter gets further complicated by any out of warranty repair which could cost more than the diesel option did in the first place. If you replace a turbo or have any major work done on the engine you may never pay for the diesel. In any case, the exact point where diesel pays off is far off no matter what. I don't think there is any situation where it happens quickly.

These days I don't think the diesel can really be argued as an economic option. At this point I think you buy one for the increased performance under towing or other conditions or simply because you like driving a diesel. Like other performance oriented options with any other vehicle, the diesel option in these trucks commands a premium for a reason and isn't purchased because your going to make up the price in fuel economy. A Mustang GT 5.0L costs more to operate than a Mustang with a base V6. A Super Duty with a diesel in it is pretty much in the same boat.
 
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Old 09-20-2016, 09:06 AM
Skipdaddie
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[QUOTE=Spamfritter;16587366 Checking around it seems that diesel trucks are worth about a $2,000 or so premium over gasoline engines. [/QUOTE]

I am not sure where you are checking, but a clean 2012 6.7 4x4 crew cab with 60-90K miles is selling in the $40K range. Similar 6.2's are in the $30K range.
 
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Old 09-20-2016, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Skipdaddie View Post
I am not sure where you are checking, but a clean 2012 6.7 4x4 crew cab with 60-90K miles is selling in the $40K range. Similar 6.2's are in the $30K range.
I pulled that figure out of memory and more than that, I was thinking of even older trucks than that.
 
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