Hey everyone, once again I am looking for some insight from the great minds here. Recently My clutch completely hit the fan (Quite literally looks like it), so I ordered a southbend 400HP rated kit (with new flywheel). I planned to install a new pilot bearing and forget about the bushing that comes with the Southbend kits, but was greeted by some alarming sights once I pulled the transmission.

The main issue, is the input shaft. The pilot literally turned to dust, resulting in the shaft getting scored. I was going to order a Fitzall kit, but didn't think it would be needed as I *thought* it would be fine to throw a bronze bushing at it (Dorman 690039) as it has more surface area than a bearing would, and theoretically would ride on the non-scored areas just fine. Well, I drove the Kevlar bushing out of the flywheel and noticed that the bronze bushing was about half the thickness of the Kevlar bushing. This worried me a bit, as it would only ride on the good portion of the shaft closest to the splines, and nothing would be riding at the good portion on the end closest to the engine.

I decided to cut my losses and installed the Kevlar bushing, then installed everything into the truck (currently just sitting with the clutch on, transmission is still on the floor). I did this as I need the truck back up and running. My 91 is living on borrowed time currently (U-Joints are about to go and replacement tires need mounted). After getting a shower and getting cleaned up, I am beginning to have second thoughts about running the Kevlar due to the mixed reviews I have read about them.

Now, on to my main question for those of you that have experience with these aftermarket offerings - Which of the three options that I have below are the lesser of the evils?

1. Drive two hours to the closest Fitzall dealer and get the Fitzall kit with a needle bearing.

2. Get a second bronze bushing tomorrow at work (ordered a box of five) and run them back-to-back for coverage similar to the Kevlar's.

3. Run the Kevlar bushing for now and change it to either a roller bearing or something similar later on down the road - Be it when I replace the transmission or get the input shaft fixed (if it would be worth fixing it since the shaft is the last out and first in).

Here is what my shaft currently looks like (Tis a bit ugly...):


Also, for those that are still running stock pilot bearings, be sure to get them looked at before this happens to you:


As always, appreciate everybody's insight on things and a large thanks in advance!

 

Can't comment on the others but mine was more worse off then yours was, and that was with the sleeve. So, I reinstalled a new FITZALL kit. Mine was gouged.

 

I assume the Fitzall fits in the flywheel without machining? I've heard yes and no (granted that threads also talked about putting the 6.0 bearing in at the same time, so info may have gotten crossed). I assume no given the name, but do want to verify.

Has it seemed to hold up well?

 

Yup, first time around, held up for 5+ yrs. The bearing supplied in the kit, has a bigger I.D. to accommodate the sleeve installed on shaft. Just redid the clutch, kit..etc last month

 

You need this:
http://www.dieselsite.com/inputshaft...smissions.aspx

Make sure you "glue" the plastic sleeve to the clutch alignment tool, or it can get stuck inside the pilot bearing (gets caught on the lip seal), and then you have to take the newly bolted on pressure plate and flywheel back off to remove it. - Ask me how I know this.....

That shaft is chewed up bad. Don't try and cut corners with anything other then the fitz-all repair kit. No bearing or bushing is going to ride on your messed up shaft properly.

Even if it was pristine, I would stay away from the South Bend Kevlar bushing. I have read pretty much nothing good about them, as far as long term durability.

The Fitz-All is a bigger, better bearing, with a seal. Pack some extra grease in there too before you install. Remember, whatever grease it goes in with is likely all it will ever get in its lifetime, as you can't perform routine maintenance on it. Within reason, the lip seal will prevent any "extra" grease from getting out and contaminating the clutch.

 

By bigger, I assume you mean depth-wise? I doubt they would be able to pack in larger needless without making the OD larger, resulting in the flywheel needing to be machined.

What exactly makes the diesel site kit different than one I can get from TransStar Industries? TransStar is two hours up the road vs. a week away.

 

Longer ( So, yeah I guess it would be "depth"), so more contact area for the needles.

It also has the lip seal, which none of the other options have (stock, bronze bushing, or kevlar), so it will keep the dirt/water out, and the grease in.

I also was reluctant to spend the extra on the DieselSite kit at first. But unless you want to spend hours tracking down just the right size/thickness plastic bushing, or making one, just get the DieselSite kit. It comes with the bearing, sleeve, and sleeve driver, same as the fitz-all kit. However, it also includes a plastic bushing that fits over the tip of your clutch alignment tool. It re-sizes the tool to fit the larger ID of the new pilot bearing. Without this 1.) You can't get the clutch disc properly centered, which will damage the hub and friction disc springs, and cause issues later, and 2.) With the lip seal on the new bearing, you don't want to be slipping and sliding and dragging the input shaft around and hanging it on that seal, in an effort to get the trans in with an off-center clutch.

As I mentioned though, do yourself a favor and use some serious glue or epoxy or something to keep that bushing firmly attached to your alignment tool. Also, don't push the tool all the way in, as the edge of the bushing could go past the lip seal, and get stuck. You may want to also chamfer the outer edges of that bushing, to ease it past the seal.

It shouldn't take anywhere near a week to get it. I'm in NJ, and I got mine if a few days. Call them on Monday. Maybe they can overnight it? Its not very big.

I'm working on a thread, with all clutch and related part#s, etc...
This may be of use:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...-and-tips.html

 

I'll give them a call and see what they say.

Out of curiosity, what is your opinion on going with the larger 6.0 bearing? I have come to accept that I am not going to have this thing back together within the week, and was looking into possibly getting the input shaft replaced since I already had the transmission out (I don't want to have the fitzall in there, have another pilot go and end up screwing the shaft up more). Closest place that is ZF certified looks to be Johnson Truck Center out of Gainesville. Anybody have any experience with them before?

 

Just saying... My sleeve went and knarled up the shaft, so I cut old sleeve off and installed new

 

Personally, I have now had 3 Kevlar bushings fail allowing the input shaft to have no support. I talked to South bend and they said it had a bulletproof record and they had never heard of any issues. They also said it more than likely was installer error or worn out input bearing. Funny though because only 1 of the ZF6s was reman. The other two were new from the factory and had play checked before clutch install. I will NEVER use nor recommend any South bend product again.


With that said, I ended up on two trucks using the factory pilot and just pulling/replacing with factory pilots and packing with a decent amount of grease. They are pretty dry when the are removed. Next I will send out a flywheel to have the 6.0 bearing installed. It is more like a shielded roller bearing as opposed to a caged needle.

 

I have to say, I am impressed by the "stoutness" of the South Bend cast iron throw out bearing though. Especially when you compare it side-by-side with a plastic stock replacement, As far as I know, South Bend is the only option for any kind of improved throw out for this application. As far as I know, every thing else, regardless of brand, is plastic.

Why bother with the time/expense of modifying the flywheel for the 6.0L bearing? The Fits-All is "shielded"/ sealed, its had more contact surface, and it fits in the flywheel without any modification. Plus, the sleeve on the input saves a bad shaft, or protects a good one from being damaged later.