Hello Folks,

I did a quick search, didnt find exactly what I was looking for so I figured Id send out a new thread.

I have a (new to me about 40 days ago) 2004 F250 SD Lariat Crew Cab 4x4 6.0 diesel. 137,xxx miles.

I thought Id gotten a good "deal" on this truck when Id bought it however the last 40 days have been very expensive. The "stealership" I bought the truck from was on a 35mph rd and I couldnt test drive it at highway speeds. So I bought the thing "knowing" there were a few "minor" sniggles wrong... however once about 15 miles from the dealership/stealership and on a highway, the real fun began.

I had a terrible shake, shimmy and groan/whine at speed no matter if the truck was in gear or not.

Since that time ive repaired/replaced:
1) Both front hubs/bearings
2) Both front hub locks
3) Both front brakes and calipers
4) 4 New Hankook tires
5) Ford Dealership Diesel engine service/lube (essentially an expensive oil change)
6) Ford Dealership transmission service
7) Drained (with a siphon) and refilled the rear differential + OEM Ford friction mod.

Ive eliminated problem after problem after problem with this thing.... and yes, the truck does get better with each repair HOWEVER.... Ive still had this groan/whine from the rear end of the truck and a rumble from starting at a dead stop despite my changing out the gear oil in the rear diff.

So I take it today to a local shop (that I trust/sort of) for a 2nd opinion. Their technician takes the truck out for a test run and comes back in 10 min saying he has no clue but the sound was annoying and he'd need to put it on a lift if I could wait.

I saw the truck go up... a few parts get wiggled, some head scratching, saw the truck go down, watched another tech jump in and 2 techs run it out for a test drive.

When it came back, I watched the truck go up again on the lift... this time however they just lifted the rear and with one guy in a pit the other revved the motor. I watched as the wheels spun. A few minutes later both techs came in and said my "rear differential was shot".

They pulled the diff mag plug which was caked in metal deposits. It looked the same when I pulled it off the first time and did the fluid change (yes i cleaned off the plug before putting it back). I had seen differentials (in the past) have deposits like that before on plugs but the units were still good and such deposits were considered casualty of wear and tear.

However im being told the rear end is shot... and the price for the part alone is $2,200. When I inquired about just replacing the internals of the diff, the shop manager said with a remanufactured part, Id have a 2yr warranty, with them rebuilding the unit, id have only a 90day service guarantee. So the owner said although it would make him more money to rebuild it (due to labor costs) he said Id be better off with a re-man part even though the part was more costly, it was a simple bolt in/bolt out job.

So, before I drop yet another huge chunk of $$ into this thing, I have a couple of questions.

1) Does this repair/diagnosis sound reasonable with what im describing as the fault?
2) How much is this truck "actually" worth. I dont mind fixing something, but again... Ive only had this vehicle 40 days and well... from the list above im sure you folks can estimate how much ive dumped into it in just repair costs.

If the truck is worth it (It is very nice "cosmetically" with low miles for a diesel)... im okay with moving forward, but if im operating at a loss, part of me is thinking about just spending a bit more and trading it out since im having so many problems. But then Im also of the mind set that if i stick with it, ill have a pretty sweet truck that can do what i need it to e.g. pull my horse trailer and ill know exactly what has been done and when.

many thanks for your thoughts.

ML.

 

If the truck has the factory limited slip differential in it then you get some magnet goo as the friction material wears. I wouldn't doubt with your mileage and unknown use history the LSD could need rebuilt or replaced. That said "your rear end is shot" is not an acceptable diagnosis, especially to give an accurate quote on.(unless you just change entire axles) Are the ring and pinion gears bad? Bearings feel rough? Differential pieces? Sounds like they really don't know whats wrong with it.

I'd take it to a driveline shop that does a lot of gear changes, rear end rebuilds, differential changes, etc to have them take a look at it. Or you could find a good used rear axle in a salvage yard, craigslist or other place that has the same gears and same axle your truck has and just swap them out.

 

dkf,

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, given how the rest of the truck is, Id bet it has the original factory L/S/Df. Im a bit limited where I live as far as dedicated axel/driveline shop, there's pretty much "do-we-cheetum-and-how" transmission repair, general auto mechanics/performance shops (where I went today)... and the dealerships.

The performance/mechanic shop I went to today wants to replace the entire rear end as a complete rebuilt unit axels and all ... hence the $2,200 price tag. Its a straight bolt on, hook up the drive shaft put tires back on and go kind of thing (how it was explained to me). These guys arent the most articulate language wise, but they havent raked me over the coals with un-needed repairs in the past.

Theres play in the gear set, plus from a dead stop, to accelerating theres a hard clunk in the rear, same goes for slowing to a stop (motor mounts are good). It sounds like a gear noise (which is why I changed the fluids right after I bought the truck in the first place) plus, the longer I drive (and things heat up) I get a bounce in the rear.

Id originally asked about just installing a new gear set, but as before, the shop wouldnt warranty the work or parts beyond 90 days, but If I replace the entire Rear end, there will be a full repair/replace warranty for 2yrs. Plus, the shop owner said that its 4.5 hours labor with a fully rebuilt rear (axels and all) for around $2,800 for the entire job. So Im at a loss. I dont have the set-up or tools any more to do this kind of job on my own, so im at the mercy of the mechanics, I do think its a bit far fetched to replace the entire rear esp when you can easily access the gears, but I did hear a gear noise/whine while the wheels were being spun however, so maybe on the right track. I just dont want the darn thing to seize up on me and snap the driveline (or worse).

Thanks
ML

 

I have to say I agree with what dkf stated. I am sure if you didnt want to spend that much on the reman one you could find one out of salvage yard truck somewhere. lord knows there are trucks out there that have gone to the bone yard shouldn't be too hard to find one.

I would definitely take dkf's advice and check with a drive line shop and see what they tell you and also research one from a salvage yard and then weight your options from there about which way you'd like to go

 

The hard clunk in the rear when starting from a stop is most likely the slip yoke it needs to be greased. That's not going to get rid of your whining coming from the rear but the clunk will still be there with a new axle. I would crawl under there check the driveline yourself for play in the u joints and carrier bearing then grease the slip yoke and see if at least part of the problem is solved you'll be amazed what a little grease will do but like I said it isn't going to solve your whining problem. Also I wouldn't get a new rear end especially for $2,200 I'd either have mine rebuilt or get one out of a wrecked truck.

 

I'm assuming you have an F-250. If so the Starling 10.5 in it is still used in SRW super duty trucks. I am sure there are yards within a reasonable distance you could get a low mileage 10.5 axle from. Even if you'd have to get it sent to you truck freight it would still be a fraction of the cost of the reman axle. Yes the axle would have to be installed in the truck and all brake parts transfered. If you can and are willing to do the axle swap yourself you can save a sizeable amount of money. Its up to you I just figure you already have put a bunch of money into the truck, might as well save some cash if you can. I always am willing to put in the elbow grease myself if I can save a sizeable chunk of money.

 

miles equals wear

high loads equals more wear

lack of hard duty service schedule type maint equals even more wear


worn parts cost labor and parts

new truck is just a payment, get rid of it in 5 years when warranty expires, get another new truck

both options cost money

both options you loose money

 

Folks, Thank you for the multiple replies. I appreciate the input.

(speakerfritz) I usually dont buy "new" vehicles for that reason (always lose money) but I also dont keep putting money in things when It appears I wont get "use" or at least 80% of my investment out should I need to sell which is why I was asking what this truck was "really" worth. Kelly Bluebook and reality seem to have a large gap in between.

That being said, I paid out a large chunk for this truck due to the low mileage, condition of the body and largely the way it performed on the test drive (which was great)... a condition unfortunately that lasted a whole 15 miles. I know this is a truck, wear and tear is to be expected, but this much so soon after a purchase (when the vehicle was marketed without flaws) is a bit much to take. The state I live in (TN) doesnt offer much protection to used car buyers unless you purchase at a manufacturer dealership. So I have little recourse against the used car lot where I found this thing.

So I am left with either fixing it, taking my lumps and knowing whats been done, or trading it in and starting over with something a bit newer. (ill address that a bit lower down).

(dkf): Since im now on a first name basis with the local Ford dealership (not the same place where I bought the truck) service manager, I called him up to see if I could get a second opinion on the Truck and see what it needed. They brought me right in, and for the cost of $46.00 I was told the following: Ring/Pinion bearings are bad, Left internal differential bearing was bad, There was scoring seen on the gears and I may or may not require a u-joint.

The Ford dealer said it was a 2 day job (e.g he would need it left for 2 days) but it would only take a few hours to repair. They quoted me $1,000 for the parts + 4.5 hours of labor. Assuming no other issues come up, it would be about $1,800.

Unfortunately, as with the other shop, a 90 day parts/service warranty only vs 2yr warranty that will cover parts and labor with the re-man rear end. Also, when i asked if the dealership would just rebuild the entire rear end vs only replacing what was broken, they said they couldnt...If i went that road, they'd have to order a factory certified re-man part and they would install (same as the other shop). Junk yards here (I looked) have well...Junk.... most of the trucks in the local bone yard appeared as if they swam in the ocean.... so much rust and decay.... that being said.... not sure Id take the chance using something that was attached to a truck that was literally turning to dust to save a couple of bucks.

So much consideration on which direction to take.

Also unfortunate, I dont have a (stable) set up right now to be able to drop the rear myself. If this were a car or smaller vehicle (maybe) but something this size is a bit out of reach for me at the moment which is why Ive been relying on mechanic services.

I did have an opportunity to speak with the sales manager today while waiting, I saw a 2008 F250 SD (same options) for sale and discussed what a trade out would cost and what my truck (as is) would be worth to them. They implied that (as is) Theyd let me trade it in for $16,000 toward the newer truck. They also (suggested) that with the rear rebuilt.... They'd wash it and slap a $25k price tag on there....(since the body is rust free, leather looks new and ive pretty much replaced or rebuilt most of the common big fault items).

Needless to say after walking their lot and seeing the prices... Im fairly sure it wasnt fluff (suggesting the $25k resale tag).... so im going to fix it and then use it responsibly and maintain the dang thing (which it appears the previous owner didnt do).

Thank you again for all the input!

ML

 

If that 08 was a 6.4 you don't want any part of that you think a rear end is expensive.

 

I agree.

This is what you run into. Labor has gotten so high all anyone wants to do is swap assemblies out. Ford parts are high, they will charge well over $500 just for the Ford ring and pinion. While you are in there the rear diff should be rebuilt IMO, along with replacing the ring and pinion and a master install kit which comes with bearings, seals, etc. A driveline shop that specializes in this stuff could use aftermarket parts and will have a lower labor cost than the dealer, too bad you don't have one in your area.

You have to keep in mind too that there are two bearings and a seal in each hub on the outward side of the axle that the axleshafts bolt to. If just addressing the differential problems you would want to make sure those bearings and seals are good too.

It sounds like your best option of the two is just put in the reman axle and done.