Hummm... well there is a really good question I don't think I've ever been asked.... this is all just off my head thoughts, as I never really considered it. Most showrooms have a few people who have been there a few years and a few new folks. If you survive this industry more than 2 years you're probably halfway decent as sales. These folks are often busy, because they are starting to get referral customers and repeat customers. Sure everyone takes their time in the "up rotation" but folks with prior business are less likely to be there, so if it's your first visit, statistically you'll be less likely to get one of these vets. So step one is to become a referral! Ask folks who have bought from the dealership. Heck, we pay the original customer for em, $50 when you buy. If the first customer was mine, and the send me someone who buys, I pay $50 out of my pocket on top to make it a $100 spiff.

So why why would you want someone who has made a living hustling? It's really a process! On the retail side they start with full price and a weak trade figure in most cases, and work their way to a deal you'll be happy with. While some of you might storm off when you get that, the truth is your not more than 20 minutes away from a really really good deal. Why not just make it easy? Because most people really don't look at the bottom line. Nonsense you say? Hardly. So we have to at least try to get a good paycheck. After that "first pencil" they should draw up a deal you'll say yes to. This part is important for you. If you don't agree to make a deal you're in for a frustrating experience that's likely a waste of time. If it's the truck you want, be willing to buy the darn thing. Shopping won't get you a better deal at most places. So come up with what you think is a great deal. Try to be reasonable, but its totally okay to make it too good to be true within that reason. They'll counter, you'll counter, and by third pencil you'll probably be letting them make a few hundred bucks. You can continue if you desire, but that's generally how it works out. A good sales person not only will move through the process, but they'll likely have some favors from the manager. The manager gets paid based on their overall performance and will trust a seasoned sales person more. New folks think everyone is buying and everyone is coming right back after they get a bite to eat. A good sales person will make sure you buy the darn thing once you've said yes, and that can mean giving it away (meaning giving all the profit away, Ford still gets their share of course).

So what else can you do? Asking for a really good truck guy will often get you someone a little more knowledgeable, but of course if they are really busy, then everyone is their "really good truck guy". So try to find times when they aren't as busy. Small dealerships often have phone calls just go randomly, but even the small shops generally have a central person for emails. They'll likely do a better job sorting it out for you and getting you into good hands, after all, they likely get paid on sold vehicles, not for giving new guys chances to learn by screwing up. So make an appointment ahead of time and make it known you're a buyer under the right care. Remember, we can all sell the truck for the same amount, so shopping is a waste of your time. You really can get the same deal with a little research and ONE trip into the dealer you like. But the key is to get the appointment with someone good so they are waiting for you. It's really easy to get a good deal if you don't fight the process. If you insist on doing it the way you want you're almost sure to have a bad experience and not be offered a good deal. Since we all know that you can get the same "amazing deal" anywhere, if we can't earn your business, you're telling us that we're wasting our time. That's not very motivational to be helpful.

Don't every walk in and say "who wants to sell a truck today". While I have actually done okay with such folks, it generally means "who wants to spend time with someone who is totally unrealistic". Your vets will let the new guy have a chance!

Even a new sales person can be a good one. They may need help with questions you have though. A good team will work together without slicing each other up. That's the big reason I stay working where I do, we all work well together (except for that one guy of course, but he keeps leaving and getting replaced with a new "one guy"). The biggest part of the experience is usually your willingness to be walked through the process. Yes, it's designed to make the most money possible, but it has a trap door at the end to just get the sale. I mean, why wouldn't it? When you fight the process and say "I just want..." and ask for lowest price and you'll be back if no one beats it... will not be a good use of your time or give you a good experience.

Of course, I'm sure some dealers just suck. I've only worked at three (currently I work at a co-located Kia dealer, same company but whole different process, team, etc). I've gone shopping for cars between and never had a bad experience. I think it's how you make it more than anything. I never try to fight the system, I say no without feeling I can't say yes later, and I'm willing to say yes when I know it's a good deal and I don't care if I could save $500 bucks driving an hour away. I want someone close by I can get help from if something comes up.

Oh, and NEVER walk in with a clipboard/note pad. That's a horrible sign of a dreadful shopper who will get so much information and not buy from you because they have to be sure they can't save $50 down the street. Your vets will get really busy when they see you walk out of your car with that. Don't hover around the truck you want, walk in to the showroom if you don't have an appointment. Waiting for someone to get you may well have you "pre-qualified" and if you don't look like a buyer then you are more likely to get a new guy. Buyers don't look rich, they look like buyers. IDK how to really describe it, but there are mannerisms you pick up on.

 

I was at a Dealer the other day and my salesman had been THERE for 25 years, same dealership...The GM is a friend of mine and he told me he will knock down $200-$250k per year...

But the guy and I cut the deal in less than 5 min, he is a no BS, straight talk guy. Insteand of askin YOU whot you will offer, he makes an offer up from...it was $500 under invoice.

I had no trade so + 6.25 sales tax plus I had bought the ext warranty, including TT&L I was under MSRP drive out

 

Oh, those $50 gifts cards are horrible. We talk about em, and yes, they should treat you like any other people shopping. The fact is guys get paid commission only. The odds of someone who comes in for $50 with a gift card are horribly small, even smaller when they ask for the most expensive vehicles. So they may have been waiting hours for a chance to make a buck (seems slow if they are watching the game), and you knocked his chances down to about 5% (20%-30% of people we meet is a more normal close ratio), meaning he'll spend 12 hours at the dealership that day not making a dime because Ford is giving out test drives. I ask folks if they are really interested in buying a car or just want the $50 bucks. Either way I let em drive, but yeah, it's a waste of the salespersons limited opportunity to make a living in most cases. Probably 90% of those folks come in and ask for GT Mustangs or top of the line trucks. While they were wrong in assessing you, it's hard to blame em. You were a buyer and he missed his chance, but it really is a dreadful program.

Ford did do a smarter program for a while that offered folks $50 if the test drove, but it was only after they selected that they wanted a specific car from the Ford website. These folks turned out the be really good leads. You basically knew what they really wanted and were paying for them to visit you about that car! Funny how a few rule changes turned a horrible program into a valuable one (for both consumer and sales)

 

Frantz,

This last sentence really piqued my interest. You said IDK how to describe it but it would be awesome to get you to think a little more on this. You're getting into that subtle human psychology that some people detect so easily and others will never see. What are those mannerisms that qualify a person as being a buyer vs. a non-buyer? What are the "tells" that communicate a person's true interest?

Just curious. It's great to hear the business from your side instead of just the constant consumer drumbeat of "If I'm going to pay $70,000 for a car, Ford or the dealer ought to..." Buyers can feel pretty entitled sometimes.

 

I doubt when I drove up in my 99' 7.3 and walked into my dealer in flip-flops and a t-shirt from the local Wally World my dealer said to himself "now that dude is about to buy a $76k truck today". LOL

 

I think most of them are too subtle to really identify for myself. I have an impressive resume for a car salesman, but psychology isn't on that list. Most shoppers end up being buyers, its a matter of how much effort you have to spend to convert them, and more importantly, can you do it that day. Since everyone can beat everyone elses deal, if you don't buy today you're likely to buy from someone else. That's where the pressure sales come from. Some general trends you learn are, the first customer of the day is more likely to buy a car. On Saturdays in the afternoon, most customers have spent all day shopping, so if you do a good job, they'll likely settle with whatever you show them, realizing "the deals are all the same" and there aren't many "bad" cars out there, and "certainly this Ford is as good as anything else". Bad weather customers will buy, and if the weather is really nice, they are buyers too, who wants to waste a nice day kicking tires? Beginning of the month you get lots of crazy people, end of month you get more serious buyers. Young people respond more to being treated with respect and do well with either or questions, old people think they know more about the business than you because in the past 40 years they've bought maybe 10 vehicles and like to feel like they are controlling the flow. And all of this can be backwards depending on the phase of the moon. Every customer is an individual so there are no hard fast rules (other than the notepad, notepads are evil).

I'm only 33 but was an intelligence analyst and instructor for the Army. I like to think I'm good at getting a quick read off people and overcoming perceived objections. I do well with logical buyers, and poorly with emotional ones. I'm bad at putting on a show. I sell cars because I want nothing to do with the government and I love vehicles. I sell trucks because I like selling something which I know will make my customers money. Hard to feel bad making a few bucks when they'll make all my profit back in a week or two for having bought it. Until the farm can support me fully I'll be selling here, so no rush.

 

And what about the buyer who walks in with a printed 2017 Super Duty Pick-Up Order Guide before the dealer has it (they only had the on line order guide for dealers) who fully understands the combinations and has a detailed understanding of what he wants and only needs minimal guidance from the salesgirl, who in fact had numerous gaps in knowledge of the freshly released manifesto? Hard sale or great customer? And I believe this applies to most all who have been with this site since the start of the 2017 frenzy at the beginning of the year. (In fact the general manager of the dealership asked if I was interested in a position to specialize in the truck department. I retired once, not interested in a sixth career.)

 

Great customer for me! Probably overwhelming for a new guy or gal. I think most smart sales managers would know how to take care of you, but not all sales managers are smart. There are a few times you have the break the process. A customer who comes in and says "I want this and I'll pay this" and having the numbers be reasonable is a "yes sir, thanks for choosing us!" It's how I bought my last new car when I wasn't in the industry (though I had been previously).

 

So how much are we (AKA the sale) really worth to a salesman? Is it different on a $20k unit vs an $80k one for the salesman?

 

I think it depends on the dealership. Around here, there a few dealers now advertising that they have non-commissioned salesfolks. They are paid a straight salary, and are graded based on if the customer walks away happy, not how much the customer spent.

 

This is a GREAT thread! I think it will save me money next time. I KNOW it will save me energy and frustration. Thanks, Frantz!

 

Dealers have to sell cars and trucks as part of making a profit, my experience over the years has been that the mega dealers tend to be less honest and have more gimmicks to separate you from more money after you think the deal is finished. Small town dealers are either very honest or very crooked. For me the first clue of which you are in is by asking a technical question or two and see if they have any product knowledge..the dealer with the clueless salesperson is usually only interested in getting all the money they can for everything they do. Another clue is in the service department, do they openly post hourly rate and pricing on services, are those prices reasonable? A lot of times second or third generation dealers will lose their way.
This said: I just had the delight of finding on of the must honestly refreshing dealerships that I have been in in many years. They were straight forward about that although they could sell me the truck at the price that I wanted to pay that they would not since it was the first one they had received and they had a lot of interest in it so felt sure that they could sell it probably for the price they did offer me or more. I did not like this at first because I wanted it for my price. I kept telling my salesman that he really should go present the offer that I made a little better than my original offer, reluctantly he went back into the office again. Each time he returned looking beaten but willing to listen to me as I continued to tell him all of the reasons that he should sell it to me at a price that I wanted, sending him into the office yet again. This time he did not return but another Man came and introduced hisself as one of the owners and said he had come out to thank us for coming in and for our interest in the truck. After a pleasant conversation getting to know each other a little I asked him what would be his best deal::: He said he had already given me a fair price considering the scarcity of this truck and the value for the dealership at this time to have it at the dealership for others to see. At that point I thanked him for his time and left the building with my wife and our Dogs. I neglected to mention that our Dogs were with us during all of this time and were totally accepted.
When I went to the truck to get a couple of pictures to post I realized that I really wanted this truck and told my wife that I was going to give it one more try. Went back in and after a little of back and forth we came to an agreement 1000 below his original deal and shook hands on the agreement. He wrote the agreed price on the order and I signed it and we started discussing when I would pick it up. Expecting to be asked for a deposit since I do not live near here and would not be picking it up for a couple of days (my choice since I had to move the RV today and did not want to do it with a new truck), so I asked him if he needed anything else before I left. He smiled at me and said that my word was good with him. It has been a long time since I have bought a car with only a handshake. This would have been enough to have made this a pleasant experience.
I got home last night and kept thinking about the price and decided to finance part of it with Ford at 2.9% since I get 6% tax free if I leave that money invested. Feeling better I was still bothered that I must be forgetting something..ahah.. X-Plan. I called the dealer this am to ask if they would honor the X-Plan on this truck really expecting them to say we do not do that or that they would not do it on this truck or that I should have presented it up front as I should have done...a few hours later I got a call back that they would do it on this truck and it would save me another 900.
This deal was not the best I have negotiated but it was refreshing to meet and deal with an honest and straightforward organization.
The icing on the cake was when I asked if they could remove the 4X4 decals from the rear fenders since I really think they look crappy,, the answer was a simple yes we will have them gone.
Sorry this went so long but it was so nice that I wanted to share so that others could have a more positive view of dealers, there are some that know how to do business with integrity.

 

I was on the way to Sears one Sat morning to get a replacement part for my weed eater. I had been doing yard work all morning long, its was early fall, I was covered in grass clippings, sweat and dirt from mowing, edging etc. On the way back I saw a Lexus SC being delivered and decided to look. At the same time the landscape workers were there mowing and edging. I walk into the showroom to inquire about the new car and a guy comes over and tells me the workers bathroom and water fountain is not in here, but over in the service area. I tell him I am there to look at a car and he says quickly the used cars on down at the other end of the lot. I tell him I was interested a new car, he asks what kind and about then they are driving the new Lexus SC in the double doors on to the showroom floor. That one.

I end up buying it and drove it home.

 

Flip flops are a good sign actually. Folks wear cheap flip flops can't use em much before they fall apart, so that's a guy who knows how to relax, which means he has money but doesn't waste it on Tevas or whatever.

 

For me it was a black and white experience. From going to the worst experience with one dealer to an amazing experience with another. McLane Ford of Fredricksburg Texas was excellent and can't say enough good things. No games. No gimmicks. Seemed Genuinely nice.