I know I've been asking a lot of questions, but I have never one this deep into the engine before. I have installed a distributor and found what I believe to be TDC using a piston stop. I went one way around until it stopped and then the other making marks at each point. I then found center between the two marks (which were about 3" apart) and aligned the crankshaft/harmonic balancer and installed the distributor. I then put the top on with the distributor pointing toward the nearest cap (none lined up exactly, but one was closer so I used it). and rearranged the plugs to the correct firing order.

Is this the correct method? I can't try to start it till after more parts come in for my carb tomorrow and Tuesday. Even then, the truck has not driven in about 2 years. I put a lot of work into it in March and got it running for about 1 minute intervals, but never head it stay on. I think the carb was the culprit so that is why I have changed it. IF it does not start when I try what will I look for to be able to tell if the distributor is what is causing it? Thanks for your help, I know its a lot to read.

 

Nothing wrong with asking questions, nothing at all!

It boils down to are you going to have enough distributor adjustment to set the base timing, you may need to set it over a tooth or two one way or another.

A goal is to to have the distributor in the middle of it's adjustable range (or where one chooses) with the base timing correct.

-Enjoy
fh : )_~

 

Fill me in on how I am going to have to time it additionally and how I can tell where the middle of the adjustable range in. I didn't know additional timing was necessary, but I do have a timing light if that is needed.

 

The thing is first off you said you are using a piston stop to find TDC. That is fine for finding TDC but you can use your balancer for this as well.

One big problem you will run into is if you stab the distributor with rotor pointing at #1 on TDC the way you found it you have a 50/50 chance of it being installed 180* out.

What you need to do is hook up a starter bumper to your solenoid and bump the engine over with your thumb over cylinder #1 till you feel compression. When you feel your thumb being blown out of the spark plug opening now rotate the engine by hand to TDC and now you can drop your dist in.

If you just use a stop you might end up with it installed 180* out and run into a problem I did on a 350 sbc where it started and ran but ran like **** and when you turned the engine off it would diesel on. Most cases the engine wont even run I was surprised this one even ran with the dist being installed 180* out.

 

You'll need the timing light ... Later.

I am not a Ford Gasser guru, so I only can only give the basics.

Someone will likely post technical info and possibly diagrams for the Ford.

However, most distributors housings can only be turned (adjusted) in the block so far clockwise and counter clockwise before they hit something. That is the adjustable range.

This adjustment is how one sets the base ignition timing. Something that is done with a timing light typically when the motor is running ... However, on some motors it can be done without the motor running, I am not sure about the Ford.

Before installing the distributor place the distributor cap on the distributor temporarily and mark the distributor housing where #1 spark plug wire is on the cap.

When setting the distributor, hold the distributor housing clocked where you want it as you set it into the block, have the rotor pointing a little before your mark so as the distributor sets it rotates the rotor (not distributor) to your mark.

If it's not aligned with your mark, pull the distributor up enough to rotate the rotor in one way or another so when you set it again it rotates to your mark.

I typically set them just prior to my mark, not exactly aligned up. The leading edge of the brass contact on the rotor just at my mark.

You will likely also have to fight the oil pump drive as well. Although the hex drive the Ford uses does make it easier then some.

EDIT
I agree with Rusty S, You do need to ensure you are at TDC #1 on Compression stroke ... You can also do this by watching valve movement and turning the motor by hand!

-Enjoy
fh : )_~

 

On the oil pump drive once you get the dist where you want it you can use the starter and bump the engine over slowly one bump at a time till the dist falls into the oil pump drive. This is a technique I use on all engines with a distributor. You already have the distributor timed to where it needs to be just need to line it up with the oil pump drive to allow it to fully seat.

 

I disagree on bumping the motor over with the starter ... You have very little control, do it by hand!

It's easy enough to align the pump shaft thus leaving the motor at TDC for doing static base timing without having to find TDC #1 Compression again.

-Enjoy
fh : )_~

 

Why would you have to find TDC on #1 on the compression stroke again after you've already installed the distributor. We are talking about finding TDC on compression installing the distributor where it needs to be with the rotor pointing where it needs to go and then tapping the engine over till the dist falls on the oil pump drive. The dist will turn as the teeth are still meshed with the cam the timing relation of the dist to the rest of the engine will not change doing this.

I have used this technique for years and never had a problem with doing this.

Find TDC on compression for cylinder #1, line up the rotor to drop where I want it to point at terminal #1 on the cap if dist wont fully seat tap it over via key till dist drops. Install the distributor hold down snug it down allowing dist to be moved some. Crank on it with making small adjustments to the dist till the engine fires off and runs then you use the timing light to bring timing to where it needs to be 8 to 12 degrees initial.

 

On many motors the base ignition timing can be set statically before starting the motor thus the base timing will be damn close if not right on, if one is good. Just guessing the base ignition timing good enough to get the motor running and time it after it's running is bad technique.

That technique (guessing) is very detrimental to a new motor needing break in, though I'm not sure new motor applies to the OP ...

I have also set many distributors over the years.

-Enjoy
fh : )_~

 

Well reguardless even if you want to try and eyeball it and set initial timing by eye before starting you don't have to find TDC on compression cause with the way I said just bring the engine around till the rotor is where number 1 plug wire will be put and you know you are on TDC compression. So in reality the bump with the starter technique to seat the dist on the oil pump drive is not causing more work. If anything pulling the dist multiple times to turn the drive or wiggling and dropping the dist to make it seat is more wasteful of time than just simply hitting the key a couple times to bump the engine over till the drive lines up.

 

That's the whole point, It is you that chooses to guess and eye ball your initial ignition base timing, not me!

I choose to do (and teach) it scientifically with no guess work or eyeballing and set it right before the motor is even started.

-Enjoy
fh : )_~

 

If I take the distributor back out to make sure I am on the compression stroke I have modified my piston stop (homemade spark plug drilled out with screw going through and fuel line over screw to keep it from scratching and tight in the plug) and put a balloon over it. If I turn the crank clockwise to TDC and the balloon fills up this means I am on the compression stroke correct?

I can only hand turn the crank right now because a lot of my wires are still not hooked up etc. Also, can put the distributor in at any position as long as the cap has the rotor pointing at the #1 cap even if the rotor is pointing at the other side of the engine or does the rotor have to be pointing at the #1 cylinder?

When you say you put the distributor just prior to mark do you angle it just clockwise to the mark or just counter clockwise? And when it falls in will it be pointing directly towards the cylinder 1 cap (or did I do something wrong when I installed it)?

Thanks for all of your help!

 

Won't bumping or turning by hand before the distributor is set take the engine out of TDC by the time it is set?

 

Actually it is you that is guessing and eyeballing. I am simply turning the distributor till it starts on cranking. As far as on a new engine if doing this causes damage before break in then you obviously did not use assembly lube as that is what lubricates the engine on initial start up.

It will not as your rotor position towards cylinder one will remain in time to tdc for cylinder one on compression stroke. You turn the distributor one way or another to fine tune timing to specifications.

 

Finding true TDC, installing a distributor and setting the initial base timing statically.

Having patience and doing this properly is very very rewarding ... It's a proud moment when the motor fires right up and purrs no fuss no muss.
Whether it's a fresh built HP motor needing break in or thrashed out field beater.

No worry about setting the timing with a light, No jacking with the ignition timing while trying to get it started ... It just goes Vrooom!

To find true TDC on the balancer, use a piston stop tool and a static pointer attached to the motor.
It does NOT have to be done on the compression stroke, TDC#1 is TDC#1 no mater the stroke, it is still TDC#1.

• Make all marks with a fine point marker.
  1. Install the piston stop tool in cylinder #1.
  2. Gently rotate the motor until it gently hits the piston stop.
  3. Mark the balancer at the pointer.
  4. Gently rotate the motor the other way until it gently hits the piston stop.
  5. Mark the balancer at the pointer.
• Now mark the balancer exactly in the middle of those two marks, that is true TDC.
• That can be accomplished with a piece of paper.
  1. Wrap the paper around the balancer.
  2. Transfer the marks onto the paper.
  3. Fold the paper in two matching up the marks.
  4. Wrap the paper back around the balancer matching up the two marks.
  5. Mark the balancer where the crease is. That is True TDC.
• To mark degrees out on the balancer with a piece of paper. (some use tape, it stretches and fouls the process up IMO)
  Pay attention to detail and use a very fine point marker like a sharpened retractable pencil.
  Measure accurately.
  1. Take a piece of paper and wrap it carefully around the balancer.
  2. Mark the paper where it meets the other end.
  3. Lay the piece of paper out flat and measure from the edge to the mark. (That's the accurate diameter of the balancer)
     It will typically be a round number.
  4. Multiply the diameter by Pi. (3.1415926535897932384626433832795)
  5. Divide the result by 360.
  6. That result is the distance between each degree.
  7. Now mark the paper with the number of degrees desired.
     • Or multiply the distance between each degree by X to get the static base ignition mark.
     • Example
       • The balancer diameter is 6 inches.
       • X is the desired goal of 34*BTDC.
         6 * 3.1415926535897932384626433832795 = 18.849555921538759430775860299677.
         18.849555921538759430775860299677 / 360 = 0.052359877559829887307710723054658
         0.052359877559829887307710723054658 * 34 = 1.7802358370342161684621645838584.
         1.7802358370342161684621645838584 is the exact distance from TDC around the balancer to 34*BTDC.
       • Mark a piece of paper with two marks 1.780 inches apart.
  8. Place the paper around the balancer and align one mark with the TDC mark, the other mark(s) clockwise (typically) from TDC.
  9. Transfer the mark(s) to the balancer.

Next, We'll install the distributor.

Most distributors housings can only be turned (adjusted) in the block so far clockwise and counter clockwise before they hit something. That is the adjustable range.
To find the adjustable range just stick the distributor in fully seated and rotate it fully clockwise and counter clockwise and take note of the center of adjustable range. Then pull the distributor back out.

This adjustment is how one sets the base ignition timing. Something that is typically done with a timing light when the motor is running ... However, it can be done on some motors statically. i.e. Without the motor running, even setting on the engine stand. But we'll stick to doing it in the vehicle and using the vehicles electronics here.

X is the initial base ignition timing desired.

Some bump the starter feeling for compression on #1 spark plug hole to find when it's coming up on compression. I'll explain the valve movement method instead.

1. Hand turn the motor while watching the #1 valves, when the intake valve starts to close it is near the end of the intake stroke and coming up on the compression stroke.
   Once the motor is coming up on compression #1, rotate by hand to X. If X is missed, backup 20 degrees or so before X and creep up on X without going past X. This keeps the slack/slop out of the system.
2. Grab the distributor and put the distributor cap on temporarily and mark the distributor housing where the #1 wire will be, then pull the distributor cap back off.
   To get even closer with the guess and by golly method one could mark the distributor housing on the leading edge of the #1 contact in the distributor cap. (that would be clockwise from the center of the #1 spark plug wire contact on a Ford)
   But not necessary in the method outlined here, we are going to set it exactly later.
3. Now install the distributor rotor ensuring it's properly seated.
4. Add a touch of motor oil to the o-ring and smear it around.
5. Install the distributor, hold the distributor housing clocked according to how it's to be clocked within the adjustable range (typically the middle) as it's set into the block, have the rotor pointing a little before the mark so as the distributor sets it rotates the rotor (not distributor housing) to the mark.
   • If it's not aligned with the mark, pull the distributor up enough to rotate the distributor shaft (rotor) in one way or another by 1 tooth so when it's set again it rotates to the mark.
     I set them just prior to my mark, the leading edge of the brass contact on the rotor just at my mark. (a little clockwise on Ford)
   • The oil pump drive will likely have to be fought a bit as well.
     Although the hex drive the Ford uses does make it easier then some, sometimes they'll just settle in, sometimes not.
     Just carefully pull the distributor and rotate the oil pump shaft a tiny bit then reset the distributor.
   • Repeat until satisfied with it's set.

Many call this good, start their motors messing with the timing while trying to get it started as it's popping and a farting just to use a timing light. In the mean time their fresh new high performance built motor is destroying itself ...

There is a better way ...

The basics of this works for most ignition systems, point style and electronic, the tools differ.

I believe the following technique works on electronic ignition Fords.
I have not personally used this technique on a electronic ignition Ford. I have used it many many times on others, I just don't do Ford Gasser's, they are not my game!

The technique uses a resisted LED or a LED test light ... It must be LED! DO NOT USE A INCANDESCENT TEST LIGHT!
Remember LED's are polarity specific ... If the polarity is unknown, search or ask.
For LED test lights the Probe is Positive and the Clamp is Negative when properly assembled.

Now that the distributor is in, hook up everything and get it ready to fire up.
DO NOT rotate the crank. (or it'll have to put it back on X on compresion #1)
Don't put the distributor cap on permanently, just add all the wires, starting with #1 then follow the firing order in the direction the rotor turns. (counter clockwise for Ford while looking at the top of the distributor cap)
Now Recheck that all the spark plug wires are on correctly ... This is the #1 mistake, not getting the wires on correctly.
Put the distributor clamp on but don't tighten.

Just before it's ready to fire it up it's time to set the initial base ignition timing statically! i.e. without running the motor.

1. Ensure the motor has not rotated and it's still at X degrees on Compression #1.
2. Ensure all spark plugs are installed and hooked up when rotating the distributor with power on.
   It could damage the electronics, but I don't know about that for sure on these Fords, so just keep them installed and hooked up for safety.
3. Pull the distributor cap.
4. Turn the distributor housing the same way the distributor rotor turns (counter clockwise for Ford) until the rotor pointer is past the #1 mark made on the distributor housing.
5. Connect the negative lead of the LED to the PIP signal without unhooking, Connect the Positive lead of the LED to 12v+. (With an LED test light, hook the clamp to the PIP, the probe to 12v+)
6. Turn the key on.
7. Now slowly turn the distributor housing the opposite way the rotor turns (turn it clockwise for Ford) until the LED comes on, Stop, Tighten the distributor clamp.
8. Turn off ignition.
9. Unhook the LED.

It's done, The initial base ignition timing is set to whatever X is if the time was taken to do it right ...

Now the motor is ready to fire up and run correctly with the base timing set near perfect if careful time has been taken and done right.

-Enjoy
fh : )_~