Hello,

I was just doing a little reading and think I have picked up a pretty rare van a short while back. I am just trying to verify that it is worth saving all the parts from the van before I pull all the other parts I want.

The van:

1980 E150
300 I6
4 Speed Toploader Overdrive (I believe) from compared pictures...

I had picked it up specifically for parts, thinking I could use them to swap a manual transmission into my other van, but I hadn't realized the clutch and linkage would be mechanical. My transmission I want to use is a ZF which requires a Hydraulic Master and pedal set.

I am fairly confident I can find someone that would want the parts if I decide I want to get rid of them, but I just want to make sure the parts are what I think they are. What exactly are the parts that are important to hold on to?

Additionally, do any of you think it would be possible to trade the transmission, pedals, and linkage for a hydraulic setup out of a newer van? I don't know if this would even be something anyone would be interested in.

All Manual hydraulic information on van setups would be VERY appreciated.

 

Any manual transmission 75-89 or 90 Econoline is fairly rare. They didn't make too many of them compared to the auto equipped ones. But that doesn't mean it's worth a lot more then any other Econoline that age. But that parts can be.

I believe your 4 spd is what some people call the Top loader imposter. It looks like the old top loader 4 spd's but it's a RUG 3 spd/OD transmission. You can find more info on it here: Toploader Imposters




I think the hydraulic slave cylinders started in the vans some time between 83 & 85. Every place I look for the exact year, I find different info. Number Dummy could probably tell you exactly what year they started.

What year is the van you want to swap the ZF into?

The 5spd parts van I bought a few years back was a 88 that had the mazda 5spd with a hydraulic clutch master & slave cylinder. The one I had has the clutch master cylinder that mounts in the floor. That set up shouldn't be too difficult to convert your mechanical linkage set up over to it. Here's a picture that show's how my 88 donor was set up.



The clutch master cylinder mounts to the floor and points down. It has a remote reservoir that mounts to the brake booster.



If it was me I would go a head and use the steering column and pedals out of the 80. I mean you already have so why not. Then buy a clutch master for a late 80's van. Then either modify the piece of your clutch linkage ( that connects the pedals to the rest of the linkage ) . Or find the one piece of linkage from a hydraulic set up van or make one.

Since you want to swap in a ZF you are going to have to do some of the same stuff I'm going to have to do to fit the NP435 in my 89 E350. Your 4spd van should have the shifter mounted on the tailshaft housing. This has the shifter farther back and slightly closer to the driver seat. Well with the NP435 or the ZF 5spd the shifter is in a tower right over the main part of the transmission case. So this means the shifter actually will come up thru the dog house. Like the 5spd in my donor van.



Now the bad news the NP435 and the ZF have a larger & taller shift tower then the mazda 5spd. So you may need to do some trimming on the floor and you might have to modify the dog house. I'm thinking about making mine a two piece dog house. I want to make the piece of dog house, that the shifter comes thru, a separate piece. I think a two piece design will make it easier to work on. In this picture you can see how close the mazda 5spd is to the floor. I believe the ZF is much taller/larger.




And please hang onto any parts that have to do with the manual transmission, that you don't need. There is always someone looking for the Econoline manual transmission parts. And the linkage parts are hard to find. Depending on where you are located I might be interested in the parts. Your 300 parts too if you aren't using them.

 

My "nice" van I want to hold on to and fix up is a 1989 extended e350. It has a 351, c6 in it. It was a small family run appliance shop where the owners did the deliveries, and only has about 90000 miles.

The grand long term plan, if you can call it that, is to make it into a 5 speed 4x4. The logic here of parts choices are I have most everything just laying around to get it done.

The dream goal would be a late 80's hot wheels like stripe paint job, a all mechanical diesel, and manual transmission.

Basically this setup. With a different paint job and revised interior.

http://www.2040-cars.com/Ford/E-Series-Van/ford-e350-4x4-van-cummins-diesel-5speed-manual-transmission-1986-13449/

But swapping in a Cummins is unlikely. So I will probably settle on a 351 version.

A few specific questions ...

What are the front end frame difference between e150 and e350? Are the beam mounts and frame pickup points the same? They look pretty similar. Thinking of cutting the front end of frame / body off e150 to make a frame/body dummy for building brackets and fabrication for project.


Also, are there any side by side pictures of hydraulic and mechanical clutch pedals, the operation rod for the clutch master, and the in cab clutch linkage? I think it would be possible to use parts from clutch pedal set out of my parts f250 and build the set into a hydraulic set.

 

Looking through Seattle-area Craigslist, I am struck by how few of the bent-nose generation (what, '74-'90? I can never remember this) of Econoline are for sale. I have noticed this about Craigslist's ads over the last year or so. As a general thing it's what you'd expect, of course, but there were so many of these vans sold, it still surprises me that of 140-some Ford Vans offered, maybe half a dozen were pre-1992. I still see some on the street, but it seems that enough bent-nose vans have gone to the crusher as to make them start to become a little hard to find. If I weren't already highly aware that I've gotten OLD, this would be additional evidence!

Maybe the takeaway is that if you have a bent-nose/broken-nose Econoline that you like, a keeper, and if you have a place for one, you might want to get another one to rob parts off of as needed . . .

 

So we've got almost the same thing for our project vans. But I'm sure yours is in much better shape then mine! Mine is a 89 E350 extended van, 351W/C6. But mine is a club wagon that I'm building into a stealth cargo van. I'm keeping the windows int it but adding interior walls to protect them from getting broke out from the inside. And I'm going to be swapping in a built 300 inline 6 with a NP435 4spd and NP205 transfer case. Everything super tough and easy to work on. I'm keeping mine 2wd for now but wanted the option of going 4x4 down the road without having to swap out the transmission and driveshaft. Plus the transfercase will give me the low range that I can use in reverse for a lower reverse gear. That will come in real handy when I have to back a trailer up an incline.

If you want a mechanical diesel the 6.9/7.3 idi's are the easiest choice since these vans were offered with them. They are as popular as the cummins or the Powerstroke's. But they are some simple, tough engines. They won't make the hp the other diesels can but I still like my IDI in my F-Superduty.

That van in the link looks like a beast!

I'm pretty sure there is a difference in the frames. But I don't remember what they are. It might just be the thickness of the frame rail material. I've never had two frames side by side to compare. Are you planning leaf springs up front or a coil set up?

I don't have any pictures of the two different pedals side by side. I've owned both types but never at the same time. Your F250 stuff won't work when it comes to the clutch master parts/linkages. If it's a hydraulic master set up in the F250. The truck hydraulics mount on the firewall and have a really short push rod in the clutch master. And the van doesn't have enough room on the firewall to mount the master in that location. And the truck pedal arm pushes towards the firewall. The van set up pushes down towards the floor, like the mechanical linkage. I would just pick up a replacement clutch master for the van and a new hose/line for it. And then either modify the the piece of your mechanical linkage or make up a new push rod for the clutch master. Look at the first picture I posted. You can see the clutch master pushrod right next to the arm of the gas pedal. Then look at your 80. If the linkage goes thru the floor in the same area then there should be no issue using those pedals and the first piece of linkage to make the hydraulic set up work. If you want to modify your linkage piece you'll just need to cut it to the length you need and round off the cut end.







It's 75-91 for the range of this body style. Most were used up and thrown away. I'm always watching for them to pop up for sale. My problem is when I find one I usually don't have the spare cash to buy them or the space to park them.

 

I am thinking about going coils with the D60 since it would be a little better ride. Especially if I can use the front of the E150 as the testbed for preparing the axle and bracketry so I can keep the E350 ready and be able to drive while I work on the project. The leaf front suspension would probably be a quicker project as the D60 is already set up for leaves and it is really a pretty simple project to hang leaves for a front axle.

I already have a pretty big collection of parts already in my possession to use.

A complete 91 F250 4x4 extended cab long bed with 351 and a zf.

A 1987 D60 Ford KingPin front axle with 4.10 gears.

I now have the 1980 E150 van with the manual pedal set.



It is a pretty recent decision to pursue building a vehicle exactly the way I want. My wife has even got to the point to tell me to just make one the way I want.

So, I have changed direction with several of my projects. I am consolidating several small mods on other projects into this one project now. The F250 (which is a rust bucket with an ailing EFI system) will be sacrificed for this project as needed. The D60 Slated for the F250 got bumped to this project. I have some ttb parts from some ranger high speed offroad plans. Several D44 TTB including a set of plated trussed beams, a couple of D50 ttb for plans of an 8 lug D44/50 hybrid.

My past truck was a 2002 Dodge 3500 with a cummins turned up a lot. I want to have that kind of power in a van. The more I think about it the more I am realizing I may have to go cummins after all... It is getting more common place and most all of the hard-work has already been figured out by other swappers.

Fordman I may have some additional questions to hit you with as it appears you are the person with the most to say on the subject of the manual transmission vans. Plus, it is always good to have someone who has a similar appreciation of good options on a vehicle. A "Stealth" cargo van sound very interesting as well...

 

Hydraulic clutch introduced in 1983 F250/350 6.9L Diesel & 7.5L (460).

Introduced in 1984 F150/350 & Bronco 300/302 (except F350)/351W & Econoline.

 

Thank you sir.