Wheels Type Vibrations
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Mar 2013
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From: Wyoming
Wheels Type Vibrations
So I have been looking at modifying my wheel tire oem set up with 19.5" SRW rims and commercial grade severe duty tires.
Learned a couple things:
1) OEM wheels are what's called hub centric, and are balanced normally using a hub adapter on balance machine. This is the normal OEM type of wheel. In other words the wheel is centered on hub of our excursions.
2) A lot of aftermarket wheels are lug centric and rely on lug nut torque to center wheel. These wheels are difficult if not impossible to balance using the "normal" hub adapter that most tire places use. Vibration issues are common with these rims due to both torque of lug nuts and improper balancing. Special adapters are needed to balance lug centric wheels.
Just thought I would share what I have read on this issue because I read alot about people who have new rims and tires and exclude those as a cause for vibration when in fact if wheels are lug centric they could very well be the issue.
http://www.gregsmithequipment.com/Hu...Vs-Lug-Centric
Learned a couple things:
1) OEM wheels are what's called hub centric, and are balanced normally using a hub adapter on balance machine. This is the normal OEM type of wheel. In other words the wheel is centered on hub of our excursions.
2) A lot of aftermarket wheels are lug centric and rely on lug nut torque to center wheel. These wheels are difficult if not impossible to balance using the "normal" hub adapter that most tire places use. Vibration issues are common with these rims due to both torque of lug nuts and improper balancing. Special adapters are needed to balance lug centric wheels.
Just thought I would share what I have read on this issue because I read alot about people who have new rims and tires and exclude those as a cause for vibration when in fact if wheels are lug centric they could very well be the issue.
http://www.gregsmithequipment.com/Hu...Vs-Lug-Centric
Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,259
Likes: 346
From: Northern California
I'd take that with a grain of salt considering that page is trying to sell a $400 adapter.
Atlas® Universal Adapter (40mm Shafts) | Greg Smith Equipment Sales, Inc.
Atlas® Universal Adapter (40mm Shafts) | Greg Smith Equipment Sales, Inc.
Thread Starter
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,576
Likes: 41
From: Wyoming
I would never belive just one site.
Discussed below
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...b-centric.html
Also this site only makes hub centric for conversions.
Rickson Wheel Manufacturing
OEM is hub centric so that is what I will be using.
Discussed below
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...b-centric.html
Also this site only makes hub centric for conversions.
Rickson Wheel Manufacturing
OEM is hub centric so that is what I will be using.
Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,259
Likes: 346
From: Northern California
I would never belive just one site.
Discussed below
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...b-centric.html
Also this site only makes hub centric for conversions.
Rickson Wheel Manufacturing
OEM is hub centric so that is what I will be using.
Discussed below
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...b-centric.html
Also this site only makes hub centric for conversions.
Rickson Wheel Manufacturing
OEM is hub centric so that is what I will be using.
2. ok
3. nothing wrong with sticking to hub centric.
Thread Starter
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,576
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From: Wyoming
It just kinda makes sense to me.
Although I never said cant....I said difficult if not impossible. If wheels are well made and made to tight tolerances than yes a hub adaptor will work. I just do not know how well made Chinese wheels are these days.
If wheel is lug centric and hole for hub on wheel is off a fraction....say 1/16 to 1/8". Then that hole is used to balance wheel/tire instead of the lug holes, balance could be off because the center of rotating mass is different once wheel is mounted on vehicle.
I'm no tire/wheel expert but it kind of make sense to me. Just wanted to help anyone who may have an issue with vibrations and cannot track them down.....this could be the issue.
Although I never said cant....I said difficult if not impossible. If wheels are well made and made to tight tolerances than yes a hub adaptor will work. I just do not know how well made Chinese wheels are these days.
If wheel is lug centric and hole for hub on wheel is off a fraction....say 1/16 to 1/8". Then that hole is used to balance wheel/tire instead of the lug holes, balance could be off because the center of rotating mass is different once wheel is mounted on vehicle.
I'm no tire/wheel expert but it kind of make sense to me. Just wanted to help anyone who may have an issue with vibrations and cannot track them down.....this could be the issue.
Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2011
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From: Northern California
modern rims, both hub centric and lug centric are machined to hundred thousands of an inch tolarences. both lug centric and hub centric rims are machined on CNC equipment and the center bore and lug holes are concentric.
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Mar 2013
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From: Wyoming
I don't know enough to argue that point.
But for lug centric wheels to mount properly on our excursions than axle flange lugs would need to pretty well centered in each hole on the wheel. I've never measured mine but assuming what you say about the quality of all wheels and assuming axle lugs are equally high in tolerance than I guess there would never be an issue.
I just feel more comfortable loading vehicle wheels via hub than lug nuts. In addition taking any variances from prefect wheels into account. And I feel more comfortable using a wheel that is hub centric being balanced via hub.
Contrarally I would not want a hub centric wheel balanced using the lug holes. It's just the way I am, Reguardless of how perfect the wheels are today.
http://www.barrystiretech.com/unifandbal.html
Very good reading.
But for lug centric wheels to mount properly on our excursions than axle flange lugs would need to pretty well centered in each hole on the wheel. I've never measured mine but assuming what you say about the quality of all wheels and assuming axle lugs are equally high in tolerance than I guess there would never be an issue.
I just feel more comfortable loading vehicle wheels via hub than lug nuts. In addition taking any variances from prefect wheels into account. And I feel more comfortable using a wheel that is hub centric being balanced via hub.
Contrarally I would not want a hub centric wheel balanced using the lug holes. It's just the way I am, Reguardless of how perfect the wheels are today.
http://www.barrystiretech.com/unifandbal.html
Very good reading.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2011
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From: Northern California
please note, I am not trying to persuade you to buy on style rim over another, just providing some clarity on often misunderstood topics. buy what you feel comfortable using.
regardless of hub centric or lug centric the load a wheel carries is accomplished by friction between the rim mounting surface and the face of the hub created by the clamping force of the lugs and lug nuts.
the small spigot of the hub that you use to center a wheel on hub centric rims is not what carries the load, they are way to small and the fit much to loose to be a load bearing connection.
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Mar 2013
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From: Wyoming
1/100000 = .00001 inches
SAE standard is .030 inches or about 1/32 inch.
I just want to clarify what I have read the standard is vs what I suppose manufactures are actually doing. .00001 inch is kind of small, and I tend to doubt that data. I think even in a controlled lab environment that tolerance would be difficult.
My intention was to inform and not argue. I will have to agree with one thing; to disagree with Mr. Pirates evaluation of the inherent issues with lug centric wheels.
Hopefully anyone else reading this in the future understands the point I am trying to make and not be to discouraged to consider my opinion.
Thank You for reading
Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,259
Likes: 346
From: Northern California
I made sure to consider your opinion and even made a note that I wasn't trying to change it and you should buy what you are comfortable with.
as for the inherent issues of lug centric rims, I have not even mentioned them.
as for the inherent issues of lug centric rims, I have not even mentioned them.
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