400m build questions.
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Freshman User
Joined: Aug 2014
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From: Spokane
400m build questions.
I'm at a stage right now that I'm getting ready to pull my motor out of truck for a rebuild. It is a 400m small block married to a 3 speed auto. I have talked to a few local shops and so far best price is $1,500 to rebuild from top to bottom. I guess what I am wondering is can I rebuild it myself for less? I am also looking to get a little more power out of it. Now with that said I am not looking to build a track monster but would like to think I could get close to 500 to the crank out of it. I am on a budget but still want to get the most bang for my buck. And before any of you guys who are the nay-sayers, yes I have heard it all, ditch the 400 get a 460 blah blah blah, trust me if i had the money I would but I am also trying to keep truck as original as possible. So please keep it to helpful input as much as possible. The truck is a 1977 Supercab Short box F-250 2wd on a posi rear end with about 163,xxx miles. Thank you in advance for any advice and input i receive.
Hotshot
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 14,333
Likes: 247
From: Stanley, VA
To be honest, I doubt you could do it for less than $1500. And I would be suspect of the $1500 quote too. This, of course depends on what kind of shape your engine is in to begin with, how much machine work is needed.
I rebuilt my 390 and had $1100 just in machine work.
There's nothing wrong with the 400, it's a decent engine, it's just engine rebuilding can be expensive, especially when you're shooting for 500 HP at the flywheel.
Just my 2¢.
I rebuilt my 390 and had $1100 just in machine work.
There's nothing wrong with the 400, it's a decent engine, it's just engine rebuilding can be expensive, especially when you're shooting for 500 HP at the flywheel.
Just my 2¢.
Senior User
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 129
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From: Watford City
What do you motor building skills look like? A while back I saw a budget build on a 351m or a 400 (no m on the 400). I had my 351m sent to tim meyers a year and change ago and to get 500+ ponies it cost me well over the $1500 youve been quoted. on the dyno mine hit 515 hp and 525 tq and it was the exact opposite of a budget build. Tim will send you a build sheet of some of the options he has as a kit that you can purchase. Then you can take the sheet to one of your builds and see what they can do for you.
I would guess the prices you have gotten are for a stock rebuild with minimal new parts. new performance heads and a cam will cost you close to $1300-1500 alone. If you are dead set on getting the 500 HP out of a motor I would suggest looking into a crate motor that will bolt up to your bellhousing and get some matching motor mounts.
I would guess the prices you have gotten are for a stock rebuild with minimal new parts. new performance heads and a cam will cost you close to $1300-1500 alone. If you are dead set on getting the 500 HP out of a motor I would suggest looking into a crate motor that will bolt up to your bellhousing and get some matching motor mounts.
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Freshman User
Joined: Aug 2014
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From: Spokane
What do you motor building skills look like? A while back I saw a budget build on a 351m or a 400 (no m on the 400). I had my 351m sent to tim meyers a year and change ago and to get 500+ ponies it cost me well over the $1500 youve been quoted. on the dyno mine hit 515 hp and 525 tq and it was the exact opposite of a budget build. Tim will send you a build sheet of some of the options he has as a kit that you can purchase. Then you can take the sheet to one of your builds and see what they can do for you.
I would guess the prices you have gotten are for a stock rebuild with minimal new parts. new performance heads and a cam will cost you close to $1300-1500 alone. If you are dead set on getting the 500 HP out of a motor I would suggest looking into a crate motor that will bolt up to your bellhousing and get some matching motor mounts.
I would guess the prices you have gotten are for a stock rebuild with minimal new parts. new performance heads and a cam will cost you close to $1300-1500 alone. If you are dead set on getting the 500 HP out of a motor I would suggest looking into a crate motor that will bolt up to your bellhousing and get some matching motor mounts.
Freshman User
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 32
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From: Terre Haute
Hey Crash, like you I have the 400 and everyone keeps telling me to find a 460. I kinda want to keep the original motor and have done a lot of searching on ways to improve them. I wish I could afford for Tim to build mine but that will be unlikely. Here are a couple of articles on getting horsepower and torque on a budget. With the help it sounds like you have just have your machine work done and you and your friends can build it with the appropriate parts. After reading the articles I'm sure you would agree that 1500.00 on a stock rebuild would include wasted money on parts you want to change to get that 400 hp. Search ford 351M/400 build and I'm sure you will find even more useful and interesting articles. Good luck
Ford 406 Engine Build - Hot Rod Magazine
351M/400 Performance Build Up
Ford 406 Engine Build - Hot Rod Magazine
351M/400 Performance Build Up
Cargo Master
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,217
Likes: 322
From: SW PA
I agree with Mike.
I have $2k in machine work alone for a performance iron-head build....at $1500 stock rebuild I think you better double check what they are quoting you.
I have $2k in machine work alone for a performance iron-head build....at $1500 stock rebuild I think you better double check what they are quoting you.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,922
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Your not going to get much of a "rebuild" for $1500. Did they say what that gets you ? Everything will need cleaned. The block alone probably needs align honed, decked, bored, crank turned. Then rods need reconditioned with new bolts, new pistons and balanced. Who knows what all the heads might need ? New valves, maybe some valve seats, guides, milled, rockers could be worn out. Cam shaft and lifters, valve springs, retainers, keepers. Then you would need all the other parts that don't come in a kit. Then assembly + things I'm not thinking of now, water pump, fuel pump, etc. If they do it right and they are good at doing it, they are going in the hole. So the price is more than suspicious I'd say. You get what you pay for.
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Thread Starter
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Freshman User
Joined: Aug 2014
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From: Spokane
Thanks for input and info guys. Much appreciated. Ill crunch some numbers and see if I can get off cheaper rebuilding and havin a shop do machine work. I already initially planned on putting new parts on so I might as well do it all as I get money for parts instead of breaking bank all at once.
More Turbo
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 534
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From: North Texas
Tuned
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 348
Likes: 2
From: Northern Michigan
Cam, lifters, and springs. $175
Gaskets and plastigage. 75$
6" egg shaped burr. 28$
Rod and main bearings. 75$
Weiand intake manifold. 220$
600 CFM Holley. 0$ but would have been 320$
Double true roller timing set 50$
Exhaust components (some stainless) 180$
Correct thermostat. 6$
Adjustable timing kit and timing tape. 43$
Paint. 20$
Anti freeze 25$
Total $1,257.00
Just parts, and you don't see pistons or valves in that list. You can NOT get horsepower without aftermarket cam, intake manifold, and carb. Real horsepower costs real money, and unless you can find a free carb and intake, you are down $600 right out the gate.
Gaskets and plastigage. 75$
6" egg shaped burr. 28$
Rod and main bearings. 75$
Weiand intake manifold. 220$
600 CFM Holley. 0$ but would have been 320$
Double true roller timing set 50$
Exhaust components (some stainless) 180$
Correct thermostat. 6$
Adjustable timing kit and timing tape. 43$
Paint. 20$
Anti freeze 25$
Total $1,257.00
Just parts, and you don't see pistons or valves in that list. You can NOT get horsepower without aftermarket cam, intake manifold, and carb. Real horsepower costs real money, and unless you can find a free carb and intake, you are down $600 right out the gate.
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Freshman User
Joined: Aug 2014
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From: Spokane
I ran across these guys that might be worth a look. Ford Performance Crate Engines
More Turbo
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 656
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From: Salisbury, PA
You will not see 500hp without some high flowing aftermarket heads and a rather radical cam. With a radical cam you need high compression as well to take the benefit of it as well. The cam simply moves the torque curve higher up in the RPM band which makes the engine VERY sluggish down low. Cars make up for that by having very small diameter tires and numerically high gear to keep the RPMs up.
Horsepower is simply torque times the RPM it was measured at divided by 5250. At 5250 rpm torque and HP are the same.
That being said I have a 408W stroker with 9.6ish compression, AFR 185 aluminum heads and an Extreme Energy 218/224 duration at 50 thousands cam. Good cam for a truck or SUV. This engine combo makes about 500ft-lb torque and peak HP of 380-400 at the crank. To get 500hp, bigger heads and a much bigger cam is needed. Even with good high flowing heads and a radical cam most 408W strokers can get to 525-550hp. After that it gets very costly for marginal gains and start talking race gas.
Horsepower is simply torque times the RPM it was measured at divided by 5250. At 5250 rpm torque and HP are the same.
That being said I have a 408W stroker with 9.6ish compression, AFR 185 aluminum heads and an Extreme Energy 218/224 duration at 50 thousands cam. Good cam for a truck or SUV. This engine combo makes about 500ft-lb torque and peak HP of 380-400 at the crank. To get 500hp, bigger heads and a much bigger cam is needed. Even with good high flowing heads and a radical cam most 408W strokers can get to 525-550hp. After that it gets very costly for marginal gains and start talking race gas.
Thread Starter
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Freshman User
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 43
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From: Spokane
You will not see 500hp without some high flowing aftermarket heads and a rather radical cam. With a radical cam you need high compression as well to take the benefit of it as well. The cam simply moves the torque curve higher up in the RPM band which makes the engine VERY sluggish down low. Cars make up for that by having very small diameter tires and numerically high gear to keep the RPMs up.
Horsepower is simply torque times the RPM it was measured at divided by 5250. At 5250 rpm torque and HP are the same.
That being said I have a 408W stroker with 9.6ish compression, AFR 185 aluminum heads and an Extreme Energy 218/224 duration at 50 thousands cam. Good cam for a truck or SUV. This engine combo makes about 500ft-lb torque and peak HP of 380-400 at the crank. To get 500hp, bigger heads and a much bigger cam is needed. Even with good high flowing heads and a radical cam most 408W strokers can get to 525-550hp. After that it gets very costly for marginal gains and start talking race gas.
Horsepower is simply torque times the RPM it was measured at divided by 5250. At 5250 rpm torque and HP are the same.
That being said I have a 408W stroker with 9.6ish compression, AFR 185 aluminum heads and an Extreme Energy 218/224 duration at 50 thousands cam. Good cam for a truck or SUV. This engine combo makes about 500ft-lb torque and peak HP of 380-400 at the crank. To get 500hp, bigger heads and a much bigger cam is needed. Even with good high flowing heads and a radical cam most 408W strokers can get to 525-550hp. After that it gets very costly for marginal gains and start talking race gas.
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