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Old Mar 27, 2016 | 12:47 PM
  #16  
Shawn MacAnanny's Avatar
Shawn MacAnanny
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Originally Posted by Ethan Robinson
I'll try that next week, I get to the title office Thursday so then I can drive it and get fuel. It's got a half a tank or less in it
I bet it's missing that check valve then. You can just run a piece of diesel imersion rated line line from the sender return line to bott of tank and do the same thing
 
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Old Mar 27, 2016 | 01:06 PM
  #17  
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Sounds like text book air intrusion. There was a Ford issued technical service bulletin to remove the return line to the filter. In theory, it was to purge air. In reality, it allows all your fuel to drain back to the tank, and leaves you with a half empty fuel filter.
 
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Old Mar 27, 2016 | 01:09 PM
  #18  
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I'd leave it and put a 5psi poppet check valve or an fpr
 
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Old Mar 27, 2016 | 01:56 PM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by Ethan Robinson
Motor craft, they hard to come by, it had AC delco an autolites and they both were swelled but I got them to work out. Mine doesn't start then die, it just takes around 4-5 seconds of cranking to fire then run

oh, ok. 4-5 seconds of cranking before starting on a cold engine is not long at all.
 
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Old Mar 27, 2016 | 02:07 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by Shawn MacAnanny
It's at the filter head at the highest point, i'm willing to bed the design was to purge any air from the system with a constant returning stream. Heres a post i made on Oil Burners and many said it's required so i added one to my setup before IP.

Does injection pump allow fuel through return with key on and electric pump?
so the people on oil burners know better than ford engineers? it is not to let air bleed out of the filter. it is to return a portion of the unused fuel back to the filter instead of sending it all back to the tank.
and there is no way it would ever allow air out of the filter head into the return lines if it was functioning properly, there is a one way check valve in there that prevents anything from flowing out of the filter, the valve only allows from the return lines into the filter. that is why the TSB to remove the line and plug the filter head was issued, because the valve failed/leaked allowing air into the filter and letting the fuel drain out of the filter back to the fuel tank.
mine has been disconnected for the past 26 years and close to 390,000 miles without any problems at all
 
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Old Mar 27, 2016 | 02:09 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Ethan Robinson
That's what I'm thinking because once it starts it runs fine, it's not like air intrusion, there's just no fuel up there. Anyone know how to test if system is still pressured after sitting over night?

easiest way to test is to remove the fuel filter before starting cold. if it is full, the fuel system is fine.
 
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Old Mar 27, 2016 | 02:37 PM
  #22  
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Shawn MacAnanny
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Originally Posted by tjc transport
so the people on oil burners know better than ford engineers? it is not to let air bleed out of the filter. it is to return a portion of the unused fuel back to the filter instead of sending it all back to the tank.
and there is no way it would ever allow air out of the filter head into the return lines if it was functioning properly, there is a one way check valve in there that prevents anything from flowing out of the filter, the valve only allows from the return lines into the filter. that is why the TSB to remove the line and plug the filter head was issued, because the valve failed/leaked allowing air into the filter and letting the fuel drain out of the filter back to the fuel tank.
mine has been disconnected for the past 26 years and close to 390,000 miles without any problems at all
On my truck and the parts truck i bought, when i remove the fuel line from the filter fuel comes out with an electric pump. With the key off (no power to FSV) and fuel pump on i could hear air being returned to the tank on my parts truck which is how i located the air intrusion.

My filter head line ties into the fuel return lines and is definitely under pressure, the return caps are under almost none and i dont see how it could return to the filter unless the fuel return caps on top of the injectors were under a greater pressure than the filter. My understanding is these caps are under no pressure.

I think the ford engineers came up with that fix becuase if there is an air leak at any injector caps, or the duck bill has fallen off in the tank and youre below a half tank, then it can drain the filter and cause hard starting issues. If there are no leaks and that check valve on return line is intact or below fuel level there shoul be no reason the filter head would cause issues. It's cheaper and easier to plug a degassing setup than having mechanics drop a tank or replace injector caps.

so long as fuel doesnt slosh too low, there shouldnt be any issues with having it plugged but i still believe it does serve the purpose of bleeding air. its tied into the injector cap returns, which even if they were presurized to say 10psi to overcome incoming fuel fitler pressure, are tied directly to the fuel return which is open to the tank and would bleed of any pressure on the caps anyway so it could never over power the fuel filter incoming pressure
 
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Old Mar 27, 2016 | 03:49 PM
  #23  
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fuel return lines are under pressure.
the line out of the filter head is leaking out into the return lines because the valve in the head is bad. it should only allow fuel to go into the filter head, not into the return system. cap it off, and your truck will run better because you will then not be bleeding fuel pressure into the return line system, all the fuel will go to the injector pump.
 
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Old Mar 27, 2016 | 04:02 PM
  #24  
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Shawn MacAnanny
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I dont have the factory filter installed anymore but i am installing a swagelok 5psi poppet valve at my injection pump because i think a full time air bleed and consistent pump charge pressure are key to a long pump life. The valve will go where the barb fitting is then the to the fuel return line back to tank. I will pull the checks on both filter assemblies i have, even if failed, and take pictures of their orginal design direction. Do you have the orginial TSB that recommends this fix?
 
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Old Mar 27, 2016 | 06:04 PM
  #25  
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no i don't, it was issued around 1990 to help prevent air intrusion.
i went looking for it a few years ago, but all-data and the other recall/TSB site i used to use went from free lookup to paid subscription.

the system you have is pretty much all together different than the original setup.
with the facet duralift pump on my 88, i would not see air intrusion issues even if i had them, because by the time the glow plugs cycle, the pump fills and pressurizes the filter and injector pump at 9 PSi before i even engage the starter.
 
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Old Mar 27, 2016 | 06:17 PM
  #26  
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I wasn't questioning if it existed or anything just curious what it said and their reasoning. In my experience with chemical injection systems eveything in this setup to me is designed to be a degassing setup. I'd be willing to bet that the check valve in the filter is actually a poppet valve and is designed to opened at a preset pressure similar to what I've done with mine. It wears out and is no long a preloaded check valve and allows it to drain the system. I'll disassemble the one I removed tomorrow and verify with the one on parts truck. It should be obvious which way it was designed to flow when I take it apart
 
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Old Mar 27, 2016 | 08:37 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Shawn MacAnanny
I'll disassemble the one I removed tomorrow and verify with the one on parts truck. It should be obvious which way it was designed to flow when I take it apart
Yeah, I want to know that too.
I really don't see how the return system could /ever/ have enough pressure to allow fuel back into the filter side of things, unless the return line to the tank is blocked.
The supply side of the filter should be at ~5 psi, the return should be free-flowing back to tank.
 
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Old Mar 27, 2016 | 11:00 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Shawn MacAnanny
I wasn't questioning if it existed or anything just curious what it said and their reasoning. In my experience with chemical injection systems eveything in this setup to me is designed to be a degassing setup. I'd be willing to bet that the check valve in the filter is actually a poppet valve and is designed to opened at a preset pressure similar to what I've done with mine. It wears out and is no long a preloaded check valve and allows it to drain the system. I'll disassemble the one I removed tomorrow and verify with the one on parts truck. It should be obvious which way it was designed to flow when I take it apart
Please do, I wonder if plugging it will cause damage
 
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Old Mar 27, 2016 | 11:01 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Macrobb
Definitely block off the return line from the filter head. That thing is nothing but headache!
Just need a 1/8 NPT plug.

Also, feel free to adjust return line routing all you want -- It's at pretty much 0 psi, so you don't need to worry too much. For example, I removed the stock metal line and tee at the back of the engine, and routed both banks forwards to a tee at the front of the engine where everything is much easier to get to.
How does one plug the plastic injector cap with out looking like ***t
 
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Old Mar 28, 2016 | 05:51 AM
  #30  
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when i did mine i simply cut the line and stuck a bolt in the line with a hose clamp. the return circuit only has 1-2 psi pressure in it. then i put a brass pipe plug in the filter head.
i ran it with the bolt in the line for a few years, and eliminated the line with a single tap cap on the injector the next time i did a return line kit.
 
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