Running 4x4 knuckles/spindles without axles/diff?
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Running 4x4 knuckles/spindles without axles/diff?
*1980 F150 4x4*
Hey guys, been having some issues with the front end on my truck and contemplating swapping over to 4x2. I've been considering this for awhile and these current issues have motivated me to do it sooner rather than dump $$ into it. For anyone saying just buy a 2wd truck, this truck has alot of sentimental value to me and that's not going to happen.
Can I run the 4x4 suspension components without the axles? I looked at the diagrams and it appears it would work fine but I wanted to run it by some more knowledgeable folks before I go tearing everything out. I know alot of IFS trucks require the axles in place to hold the hub/bearings together, hoping this truck is not the case.
On another note, if anyone is interested in a complete 4x4 setup.. 3.50 gears. You would need a passenger side axle and hub. Everything else is in good working condition. Would be willing to work out some sort of trade with someone who has a 2wd truck to swap parts with (trans tail, driveshaft, etc..). I'm in Ohio.
Hey guys, been having some issues with the front end on my truck and contemplating swapping over to 4x2. I've been considering this for awhile and these current issues have motivated me to do it sooner rather than dump $$ into it. For anyone saying just buy a 2wd truck, this truck has alot of sentimental value to me and that's not going to happen.
Can I run the 4x4 suspension components without the axles? I looked at the diagrams and it appears it would work fine but I wanted to run it by some more knowledgeable folks before I go tearing everything out. I know alot of IFS trucks require the axles in place to hold the hub/bearings together, hoping this truck is not the case.
On another note, if anyone is interested in a complete 4x4 setup.. 3.50 gears. You would need a passenger side axle and hub. Everything else is in good working condition. Would be willing to work out some sort of trade with someone who has a 2wd truck to swap parts with (trans tail, driveshaft, etc..). I'm in Ohio.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2000
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From: Dryden, ON, Canada
You would need to leave the locking hubs in place as a cap for the outside, and come up with a plug for the backside of the spindle where the axle enters, but there is no reason you couldn't do it. Personally I would fix it, but that's just me.
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I've always wanted a hotrod style truck and I have never even used the four wheel drive, strictly a road queen. So lugging around, I dunno probably around an extra 800lbs of gear, as well as maintaining it is something I'm not interested in. I've always heard that for every 100lbs to the vehicle you can expect a 0.1 sec loss in the 1/4.
Aside from plugging the inner side of the hub, there isn't anything that would need modified to keep the bearings in place?
Aside from plugging the inner side of the hub, there isn't anything that would need modified to keep the bearings in place?
Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2013
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From: Roseville, MN
You're not going to save anywhere near 800 lbs. The front diff is probably under 100 lbs, the transfer case would be close to 100. Axle shafts and driveshaft combined would be less than 100. So maybe 300 lbs total. Not that 300 lbs is nothing, but don't be expecting 800 lbs.
No, nothing will need to be done with the bearings. At least if you have the spindle nuts that go with manual hubs. I don't know for sure about the automatic hub spindle nuts, but I'd think they'd work too.
Keep in mind that if you get rid of your transfer case you'll need to get a 2WD transmission. Or you can leave the transfer case in place and just not run the front driveshaft, but there goes much of your weight savings.
By the way, if you're looking for a hot rod style you probably want it lower than a stock 4WD. I've heard that you can just bolt on all of the 2WD suspension parts in place of the 4WD. It's a lot of parts to track down, but it will lower the front end a lot.
No, nothing will need to be done with the bearings. At least if you have the spindle nuts that go with manual hubs. I don't know for sure about the automatic hub spindle nuts, but I'd think they'd work too.
Keep in mind that if you get rid of your transfer case you'll need to get a 2WD transmission. Or you can leave the transfer case in place and just not run the front driveshaft, but there goes much of your weight savings.
By the way, if you're looking for a hot rod style you probably want it lower than a stock 4WD. I've heard that you can just bolt on all of the 2WD suspension parts in place of the 4WD. It's a lot of parts to track down, but it will lower the front end a lot.
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I would look for the front end components from a 2WD truck. Im pretty sure the TTB and TIB components are interchangeable. Nothing stopping you from doing what youre talking about above but it would probably ride/handle better with the proper 2WD components.
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Thanks for the replys.
I am going to the JY to get all the proper 2wd suspension parts but for the time being, I would like to at the very least get the axles out before any more damage is done. Hubs are locking/unlocking on their own while I am driving (not pleasant) and I can feel the axles binding and causing the truck to bounce around until it recenters itself in the hub. Brakes pulsating really bad too.
As far as the transmission goes, until I find a 2wd ZF5 trans, the transfer is going to stay in place.
I am going to the JY to get all the proper 2wd suspension parts but for the time being, I would like to at the very least get the axles out before any more damage is done. Hubs are locking/unlocking on their own while I am driving (not pleasant) and I can feel the axles binding and causing the truck to bounce around until it recenters itself in the hub. Brakes pulsating really bad too.
As far as the transmission goes, until I find a 2wd ZF5 trans, the transfer is going to stay in place.
Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2013
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From: Roseville, MN
Depending on what you're looking for in a hot rod truck, a ZF5 isn't exactly a hot rod transmission. It's heavy and shifts slow. It's strong and will hold up, but it's not for hot rods. I'm not sure what better options are easy to adapt, but you might want to look at pony/muscle car transmissions.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2000
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From: Dryden, ON, Canada
Sounds like you need new bearings in the spindles. Bit of a pain to get to, but not an overly expensive fix.
I second that on the ZF. It is not a hod rod piece by any means, but it is good and strong.
The M5OD with a Hurst shifter would be much better suited ratio and shift wise compared for your purposes.
I second that on the ZF. It is not a hod rod piece by any means, but it is good and strong.
The M5OD with a Hurst shifter would be much better suited ratio and shift wise compared for your purposes.
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Cargo Master
Joined: Oct 2005
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From: NJ
These have normal bearings so you don't need the axles installed. I wouldn't remove the differential as it may add rigidity to the drivers side TTB arm.
If you wnat to convert to 2wd IMO just pull the front end stuff from a 2WD truck and bolt it in with new bushings and such. Not sure but they may have had the smaller 5 on 4.5" car bolt pattern, never had a 2wd truck. If so you'll want to either swap the rear or get smaller bolt pattern axles from you donor 2wd truck.
What I'd do though is just fix the TTB. I used to carry spare passenger side axle shafts when I had a SWB F-150 stepside. Done them in the woods before. It sucks, but it's not ridiculous. I've blown the ujoint or stripped the intermediate shaft splines on that side countless times. The real fix is swap a D44 under there, can be done bolt on. I ended up getting a F-250 and swapped a D60 under the front, my failures moved from PITA axle failures to fast easy swap transfer case breakage.
If you wnat to convert to 2wd IMO just pull the front end stuff from a 2WD truck and bolt it in with new bushings and such. Not sure but they may have had the smaller 5 on 4.5" car bolt pattern, never had a 2wd truck. If so you'll want to either swap the rear or get smaller bolt pattern axles from you donor 2wd truck.
What I'd do though is just fix the TTB. I used to carry spare passenger side axle shafts when I had a SWB F-150 stepside. Done them in the woods before. It sucks, but it's not ridiculous. I've blown the ujoint or stripped the intermediate shaft splines on that side countless times. The real fix is swap a D44 under there, can be done bolt on. I ended up getting a F-250 and swapped a D60 under the front, my failures moved from PITA axle failures to fast easy swap transfer case breakage.
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Thanks for the info on the ZF5, I had thought about an old stang trans but figured the weight difference would be a killer.
Fixing the 4x4 really isn't a problem, have the tools and a shop to do it in. I just don't use it, ever. Having to spend time and money to maintain something I don't use seems counter productive.
What I'm thinking of when I say a hot rod truck is, as light as possible, big HP, tight handling, big brakes, aggressive stance (not slammed) with some street meats probably 12" wide on rear and 10" wide up front.
I've heard of people swapping in the crown vic front suspension, so that could be a possibility.. can't find much information on it though.
Fixing the 4x4 really isn't a problem, have the tools and a shop to do it in. I just don't use it, ever. Having to spend time and money to maintain something I don't use seems counter productive.
What I'm thinking of when I say a hot rod truck is, as light as possible, big HP, tight handling, big brakes, aggressive stance (not slammed) with some street meats probably 12" wide on rear and 10" wide up front.
I've heard of people swapping in the crown vic front suspension, so that could be a possibility.. can't find much information on it though.
Cargo Master
Joined: Oct 2005
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From: NJ
Then find a donor 2wd truck, pull all the front suspension parts, rebuild them with new rubber, ball joints, bearings, etc. and fix it proper... Or sell the truck and get one that's closer to what you want it to be.
Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2013
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From: Roseville, MN
I think I've heard it involves cutting the front of the pickup frame off and welding the front of a Crown Vic on. It doesn't seem like a simple swap.
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Not selling the truck, ever. And if you read the previous posts that's exactly what I said I was doing. But in the meantime needed to know if I could run without the axles while searching for a solid donor.. Axles sliding around and grinding in and out of 4wd while driving. Thanks.