Has anyone on these foruns ever tried installing an intake heater on these trucks to help with cold winter starts?

I was thinking about it after i saw a farmer buddy use a hair dryer in the intake to start an okd tractor in the winter, and it worked pretty well,

i figure with working glow plugs and some kind of intake heater my truck shoukd fire up at -30 celcious fairly easily.

Im sure theres 12v hair dryers available somewhere, i bet it coukd be rigged up to work.


Anyone ever tried it?

 

it might work, but you would probably kill the batteries with the heat gun.
i have never had any problems starting, even down to -20 degrees without plugging the truck in. unless of course the glow plugs were not working.

 

I know some of the older Ford tractors had a heater in the intake. It used diesel from the return system to wet a small coil type thing that would actually ignite after you held the key backwards for so long. Then it would suck the heat into the intake while you cranked the engine. Worked really good from my experience.

 

Ya i thoight aboht the battery drainage thing, but ive got portable battery pack/jumpstarter that i would be using for power.

I am not trying to bypass my gps. Im just thinking at -30 every little bit helps woth getting these engines started, and i wouldnt have to worry about burning out my gps from too much cycling or melting the wires or anything,

I shoukd mention Last winter when i was icefishing my truck woukd sit on the road or the ice from 7am to around 330 in -20 to -30 celcious and it would start after about 45 seconds of crabking(cranking for 10 sec intervals) this was with a very worn starter. But brand new glow plugs (zd9s).

Now this winter its been relatively warm. Coldest its been is -9, but my trucks harder to start these days when not plugged in. It takes about two tries at ten seconds of cranking before it starts to fire. Where as last winter it woukd fire almost right away but it wouldnt turn over fast enough to start it until a few more tries.

Ive tested the drivers side gps but havnt got to the passenger side yet. Ive got a brand new controller and solenooud too.

One thing i shoukd add is i have a very small drip from my fuel feed line thatbi just noticed the other day and im not sure how long its been there.

Could the drip be causing the hard starting? Or coukd i oossibly have a bad gp already? After a year?

Thanks

 

Drip might allow air to sneak in, which could cause an air intrusion condition. That could be related to your hard starting.

Have you replaced your starter? You mentioned it was really worn.... That is likely your real problem. How long does the glow plug light stay on?

 

I have used a propane torch to warm up the intake before.

 

Had a 93' Dodge D250 with the Cummin that had a heater box. Rule number one was never use starting fluid of any source.

 

Ya thats a good point

 

Ya ive got a brand new starter in there, its spins it really quick. It starts in a second maybe two when its warn out.

Right now in the colder temps ny wts light stays on for about ten seconds maybe a little longer. If i wait for the light to go out and then cycle them again right away the light will only stay on for four seconds tops

 

I think that is your problem and it's also the easiest and simplest to rule out by fixing it. Then see how it starts.

As has been stated a number of times in this forum, air getting into the fuel lines is by far the most common cause of hard starting and it is almost always leaks in the return fuel line system. Wherever fuel can leak out, air will get in!

In your case, I assume that you mean the steel line from the fuel filter header to the back center of the injection pump and it's leaking from the fitting at the fuel filter header? That is a low pressure line. The seal at that fitting is always included in a kit to replace the return fuel line o-rings, caps etc. because when any of those leak the same problem results.

At the filter end the brass fitting has a rubber "olive' seal inside that fits over the steel fuel line. It's called that because it vaguely resembles a pitted olive. The brass compression nut compresses the rubber to make a good seal. It does not have to be very tight. If it's leaking there then the rubber 'olive seal' is old and lost flexibility, especially now in colder weather. That would indicate that the return fuel lines, caps and o-rings are also due for replacement because they all come in one kit.

Don't over-tighten that brass compression nut trying to correct the leak. It can crack or strip the thread if you over-tighten it and then you'll have to cut and splice your fuel line (not a good thing) to replace the compression nut. You can tighten it a little bit to see if it helps until you can get a new olive seal.

I think I've read in forum topics that you can order those olive seals separately and possibly get one at a local diesel repair shop (you might try that) but if it was me, I would try the quick temporary fix mentioned further below while I would order the whole fuel return line kit with new injector caps, hose clamps, new rubber fuel line, olive seals, etc. 2 Olive gaskets are in the kit: one is for the brass fitting at the fuel filter header (steel line to IP) that I just mentioned and the other olive does not go at the IP pump end of that steel line. It is for a steel return line fitting at the rear drivers side of engine - You'll see it). The 8 copper washers are for under the injectors (at the injector seats). I didn't install the copper injector washers from the kit.

Now, when you have the kit you can just fix the one place which is leaking, (assuming it's that olive seal) and any other located leak in the return lines and wait until nicer weather to do the rest - if you have to work outside.

If that one olive is old and leaking then the rest of the rubber return lines, caps and o-rings are probably due for replacement.

Be sure to carefully check the other end of that steel line at the back of the IP pump for a leak too - especially after you've disconnected and fixed the end at the fuel filter header. Mine was leaking at both ends.

**In that situation for a quick temporary fix, I would try putting a light touch very thin coating of rubber sealant (which must be resistant to fuel) on the old olive and let it cure up (completely dry) while the line is disconnected. I would keep it warm with a light (bulb) plugged into a house circuit until it is cured. (Being a very thin layer it should cure up very fast).

The first, second and fourth products on the following page will work- I would suggest the fourth one - the small tube of "Permatex® Ultra Rubber Gasket Sealant & Dressing." After you read the properties at the following web page click on the image of that small tube at the far right for more details and a close-up image:
Product Selector

That product cures by solvent-evaporation so it will cure up rapidly (dry to touch) but if the space around it is not warm enough it will condense moisture on the surfaces [as the solvent evaporates it cools the surface to 'dew point' temperature which condenses moisture from the air) which might affect the seal. Keeping it warm in this case I would estimate to be above +7 degrees Celsius (+44.6 F) and up. 10 deg. C (50 F) is better and would be fine.

Sorry if I seem too technical for such a minor thing but I'm very detail oriented and I've done and supervised a lot of work with rubber adhesives and sealants in all kinds of weather so I am aware of these little technical details.

I highly recommend very closely inspecting the return fuel lines, all of the injector caps etc. for small fuel leaks as well as looking for fuel leaking from the input fuel line to the back of the injection pump (the center one) which is more difficult to see but you have to check, even with a piece of paper towel or something.

I've found that spots that are wet with fuel are easier to see at night with a bright flashlight because wet spots will reflect that source of light back to you - better and clearer than diffused sunlight spreading in all directions. - That's how I found one or two leaks that I had not seen in the daylight.

Air leaks causing difficult starting may have been the reason why the starter needed to be replaced prematurely and maybe the batteries.

It might start a litter better with those but without fixing air leaks (fuel leaks) it won't start like it should.

Sorry this is so long- dang it is 4:37 AM and I haven't slept yet.

 

That doesn't sound right at all for several reasons! Do you mean that after the first 10 seconds the WTS light goes off so you turn the key off and then on again?? And then the WTS light is only on for 4 seconds??

That light should be on a full ten seconds (or longer when it is cold) the second time and the third and every time you turn the ignition to "RUN" position from the OFF position.

That is the way this 7.3L controller is supposed to work.

I think you may have a bad glow plug or two (or 3) and that would be unusual for new ZD9 plugs installed last winter, but that's what it looks like to me at this moment and I'm beginning to see the whole picture of how this all occurred..

I am SO TIRED I am about ready to fall out of this chair and I can't concentrate but to make a long story short- your hard starting has been due to fuel/air leak(s) and during the process of these hard starts you have mismanaged the controller (starting) and probably burnt out a couple of the new glow plugs and probably the old starter.

The clue is: you stated that the WTS light only comes on for 4 seconds the second time (after you've turned the key to off position and back on again) It does not matter if it's the second time, 10th time or the 50'th time that you turn the key to OFF and immediately to "RUN" again that WTS light is supposed to come on EVERY TIME for a minimum of 10 seconds. AS LONG AS THE ENGINE IS COLD AND HASN'T BEEN STARTED. That is how it is designed to work.

It's all a bit more complicated with the after-glow cycle but I can't get into that now (Later after some sleep I will)

What you are describing with the WTS light coming on for only 4 seconds tells me that you have bad glow plugs. I have only seen happen when a couple of glow plugs are bad. With the older style controllers it was different.

I want to help you with this but I am SO TIRED!

For now I will copy directly from the 1987 shop manuals how the GP controller works. Then later we can discuss it.

By the way, Next time you start your truck, as well as when you have to cycle the glow plugs twice, use a watch to time the WTS light. Don't just guess-ti-mate it..

I'll post the text from the manual in a few minutes after this one

 

Ok, thanks fir the info, i assumed that they were obky staying on for four seconds or so the second tine because the glow olugs were already hot from just cycling and the controller was reading that theybwere hot and keeping them on longer... I guess not.


Ill get the test light out and test everyone of them and see if theres any bad ones.

As far as the fuek leak it is in the frame rail, i mcgyvered my fuek selector with valves and t fittings in the fuel lines so that i can change between tanks manually. The fuel leak is coming from one of the t fittings, i am gonna buy new fuel line today and take the front take out of the system since its leaking a bit and i barely use it, also with my current setup i probly have 10-15 connections by hose clamp in my fuel lines throughout the truck which is just extra places to leak air, so im gonna simplify it and just run the rear tank, and in the spring in planbing on buying the 39 galleon tank

 

All of the 7.3 controllers I've had do this. For this reason. I think this is correct.

 

Yeah, your glow plugs wont stay on as long on the second cycle.

 

I think I was chasing up the wrong tree with the controller and glow plugs. I am insanely tired but I promised that I would post what the manual says about the controller so I will.

I had to edit my previous post to replace one sentence with this: AS LONG AS THE ENGINE IS COLD AND HASN'T BEEN STARTED.

OH NO! I am in the preview window and a whole page of what I wrote has completely disappeared along with the copy of the page from the manual!

I've been up for 29-1/2 hours without sleep actually 30 hrs 15 min. - insanely tired, typing on autopilot - so I can't re-write that.

I did acknowledge that what I had written about the WTS light timing was probably NOT correct even though mine has worked like that for a year after new glow plugs but I've also had something very unusual going on during that time which I just fixed and have not checked the glow plug controller /WTS light to see if it still works that way. My truck almost always starts on the first engine revolution so I have not restarted it right after shutting it down since a couple of months ago. I'll have to check it later.

That being said, I did read that it is supposed to work like I stated and I seem to recall that it was in a Shop Manual and I probably have it here.

Whatever- here is what the 87 manual says and I have to accept that in the absence of any evidence to post showing otherwise. 1987 is the first model year that this solid state 7.3L style controller was used. (eighth generation trucks 87-91) It's the same controller and glow plugs and GP circuits as your 1988. However, the text description of how the controller works might be mixed in with some text from the earlier 80-86 gp controllers - 87 was a design transition year and the manual was being written before the truck went into production so it's probably a revised 86 manual, and so it goes for design change years... The information in places might not be completely accurate.




I wish I would not have lost all of that writing!! It is probably for the better because of my condition while writing this.

pat420swed, I'm sorry that I implied that you made mistakes with your truck I was just trying to put all of these thoughts into the simplest sentence or two.

It should be starting a LOT better than what you have described so the first thing would be to repair that fuel/air leak and it should start quicker.

My truck almost always starts on the first engine revolution but the last time I drove it (about a week ago) the day time temperatures were in the +6.7 deg. C range (+44 *F) not -9 *C (+15*F)

I can't think anymore... cant proofread (but I try) I'll check back later