got the IFS blues....
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Cross-Country
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 82
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From: Central Maryland
got the IFS blues....
just bought (a couple of months ago) an '84 150 4X4. The camber was way off (*splayed out), and looked like the suspension had sagged badly as the culprit. I bought a set of springs at the junkyard, and r&r the origionals. An uninstalled side by side comparison showed the 'new' springs to be about 1.5 inches longer than the old springs. After I got the new springs in, camber was still splayed out. I then put 3/8" spacers under the bottom spring mount, and the camber was pretty close to where it should be. Took it for a test drive, all was still good. now, after a week of driving, sometimes the camber is still good, sometimes the camber is splayed out again. As far as I can determine, kingpin nut and camber/caster bushing are tight (not moving). Before I go randomly throwing more parts at this thing, anyone have any thoughts?
*by 'splayed out', I mean the tops of the wheels are in, bottoms are out. caster appears good in all situations (as good as I can determine without having access to an alignment rack)
*by 'splayed out', I mean the tops of the wheels are in, bottoms are out. caster appears good in all situations (as good as I can determine without having access to an alignment rack)
Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,006
Likes: 72
From: Roseville, MN
Is the front end "splayed out" when parked after being backed up and not when parked after being driven forward? If so, that's normal for the Ford twin I beam and twin traction beam front ends. The toe-in makes the front tires try to push closer together as you drive forward, but when you back up it makes them tend to pull out. You'll see that in the suspension being more squatted down, with the front tires leaning in at the top after backing up. It's not a problem and there's nothing you need to (or can) do about it.
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Cross-Country
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 82
Likes: 1
From: Central Maryland
I believe that's the case after the mods, but will do some investigating the next few times I drive it.
def before the springs and spacer plates, it was splayed out all the time.
thanks for the info
def before the springs and spacer plates, it was splayed out all the time.
thanks for the info
FTE Legend
Joined: Nov 2015
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From: Angier, NC
Is the front end "splayed out" when parked after being backed up and not when parked after being driven forward? If so, that's normal for the Ford twin I beam and twin traction beam front ends. The toe-in makes the front tires try to push closer together as you drive forward, but when you back up it makes them tend to pull out. You'll see that in the suspension being more squatted down, with the front tires leaning in at the top after backing up. It's not a problem and there's nothing you need to (or can) do about it.
Toe is the difference in measurements between the front of the tires and rear of the tires about half way up from the ground. Toe in is less measurement at the front of tire than at the rear. IIRC 1/16"-1/8" toe in but check books to make sure for what you are working on.
Now when driving forward in a rear wheel drive the front tires tend to push out (toe out). When using the above measurements this should put toe in at 0-1/6" when driving down the road.
When you back up the tires would then try to push in (toe in) but because you don't back up at high speeds it is not a big deal that the steer tires are toe out AT the REAR.
Toe is also the last adjustment made when making adjustments. Caster>Camber>toe in that order.
BTW if you had toe out at the front of tires when driving down the road at speed the car/truck would be darting left & right.
Dave ----
Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2013
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From: Roseville, MN
No I don't, we're just talking two different things. You are talking about how the toe changes when driving forward or backward on any vehicle, I'm talking about how the camber changes when driving a twin I beam (or twin traction beam) equipped vehicle forward or back.
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FTE Legend
Joined: Nov 2015
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From: Angier, NC
No I don't, we're just talking two different things. You are talking about how the toe changes when driving forward or backward on any vehicle, I'm talking about how the camber changes when driving a twin I beam (or twin traction beam) equipped vehicle forward or back.
Does the camber change that much moving forward or back on a TI/TT front end? It just does not sound right to me.
Guess as long as the OP'er knew what you were say all is good
Dave ----
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Joined: Feb 2013
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From: Roseville, MN
What I was trying to say was that the toe causes the tires to pull in toward the center of the truck as you drive forward and out as you back up. The geometry of the Twin I beam / TTB suspension allows that to happen in the suspension extends (going forward) and compresses (backing up). And as the suspension extends or compresses the geometry also changes the camber. I didn't use the word "camber" in my first post because I was working off what the OP had already written.
As to whether it moves that much, it depends on how observant / picky you are. I never noticed it in my F-250 until I saw another discussion about it here. Then after looking for it I could see it pretty easily. Also I'm sure there are truck variables that make it more or less noticeable. Stiffer springs wouldn't allow as much deflection so that would make it harder to see. I think the TTB pivot points are closer to the center of the truck than a twin I beam, so it would be more noticeable on a 4WD (all else equal). And I wouldn't doubt that worn out bushings could have an effect too. But yes, it does change camber quite a bit.
As to whether it moves that much, it depends on how observant / picky you are. I never noticed it in my F-250 until I saw another discussion about it here. Then after looking for it I could see it pretty easily. Also I'm sure there are truck variables that make it more or less noticeable. Stiffer springs wouldn't allow as much deflection so that would make it harder to see. I think the TTB pivot points are closer to the center of the truck than a twin I beam, so it would be more noticeable on a 4WD (all else equal). And I wouldn't doubt that worn out bushings could have an effect too. But yes, it does change camber quite a bit.
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Joined: Apr 2007
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From: Houston
One thing I noticed with worn bushings is my tire would scrape the fender hitting a dip in the road. But that was many things contributing I think the shock constantly getting loose in the lower mount even though the bolt is tight along with a worn pivot bushing.
As far as the camber goes, worn bushings will cause the tire to lean in at the top because the I beam will be sitting lower than it should as the weight of the truck will actually crush the rubber on the top of the metal bushing. I definetly would check the bushings for wear and replace them.
As far as the camber goes, worn bushings will cause the tire to lean in at the top because the I beam will be sitting lower than it should as the weight of the truck will actually crush the rubber on the top of the metal bushing. I definetly would check the bushings for wear and replace them.
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Cross-Country
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 82
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From: Central Maryland
short term observations- yes, it def makes a difference parked whether I pulled in or backed in (apprx 1/2 dozen occasions each way in the last few days). Thanks Nothing Special.
Short term, I'll live with it, it isn't tearing up my brand-new Goodyears (my biggest concern).
Long-term, new shocks, new radius arm bushings, and new ball-joints are on my radar, but they aren't mission-critical (yet).
Short term, I'll live with it, it isn't tearing up my brand-new Goodyears (my biggest concern).
Long-term, new shocks, new radius arm bushings, and new ball-joints are on my radar, but they aren't mission-critical (yet).
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