Disgusted with trucks performance
Hotshot
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 10,590
Likes: 382
From: Texas
Completely agreed!
Nate, off the subject, where did you get your spyder for your IC setup? PM me if you want...
Back to the topic
Nate, off the subject, where did you get your spyder for your IC setup? PM me if you want...
Back to the topic
Thread Starter
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Cargo Master
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,750
Likes: 4
From: Pecatonica, IL
I'll do those things and go from there.
Rear end is going to need attention no matter what, I pulled several large chunks out of it(between 8-12 little bits in the palm of my hand), it has been acting up for some time. I though it was the trans, but it turns out it was the LS in the rear end. Not sure of the extent of the damage, but depending on how bad, will determine which way I will go as far as the gearing.
Rear end is going to need attention no matter what, I pulled several large chunks out of it(between 8-12 little bits in the palm of my hand), it has been acting up for some time. I though it was the trans, but it turns out it was the LS in the rear end. Not sure of the extent of the damage, but depending on how bad, will determine which way I will go as far as the gearing.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,063
Likes: 2
From: Southeastern IL
Swapping ring gears is easy... its the pinion that sucks lol.
I swapped out the diff in my Excursion for a LS and kept the axle in the truck. Heck, even left the wheels and tires on! (gotta love these full floates). It only cost me $20 for a shim kit plus the diff fluid (it was on sale. Cost $50-60 IIRC). Theres no doubt you could swap that 4.10 in there for fairly cheap, but that's not adding the cost of having someone do it for u.
Heres food for thought: a LS rebuild kit (for the friction plates) is $170 alone, and that's for the cheap ones. $250 for a good steel set. That doesn't include the installation kit to put the thing in when your done. Diffs are expensive lol
I also agree a rear end wont fix your problem though
I swapped out the diff in my Excursion for a LS and kept the axle in the truck. Heck, even left the wheels and tires on! (gotta love these full floates). It only cost me $20 for a shim kit plus the diff fluid (it was on sale. Cost $50-60 IIRC). Theres no doubt you could swap that 4.10 in there for fairly cheap, but that's not adding the cost of having someone do it for u.
Heres food for thought: a LS rebuild kit (for the friction plates) is $170 alone, and that's for the cheap ones. $250 for a good steel set. That doesn't include the installation kit to put the thing in when your done. Diffs are expensive lol
I also agree a rear end wont fix your problem though
Thread Starter
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Cargo Master
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,750
Likes: 4
From: Pecatonica, IL
I found this here: Dana Spicer 72960X Axle Products F 10.25 TRACLOK INNER KIT INCLUDES DISCS AND PLATES | Autoplicity
I would think spicer stuff would be just fine.
I would think spicer stuff would be just fine.
Postmaster
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 3,447
Likes: 0
From: Monroe City in
Todd im not ready to get rid of it yet. Aaron did tell me about another turbo that sparked my interest haha. Thomas the link you just posted didn't work for me but going by the title I'm guessing those are stock ls parts? If you could swing it I would lean more towards a locker of some sort. I know one thing leads to another and there is always something better out there, I have just heard about the stock ls clutches whearing out to often.
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 900
Likes: 1
From: Cross Lanes, WV
These are the same problems I have had with my truck since I got it. It has 410 gears from the factory. 4x4 and 315 x 75x16 tires. Stock, it was a dog. Dropped the 7000 lb 5er on it and it took forever to get up to 60 mph. I started reading in here and realized I needed to mod. I added guages and ts chip. Started gaining a little power and high EGTs. Added stage ones and t500. Added more power and even quicker rising EGTs. Added water
/meth injection. This would help hold down EGTs when using straight distilled water. On the washer fluid, it only added to the high EGT problem. Added an intercooler and custom TW tunes. I now had plenty of power to pull the 5er, but could not use it because going uphill I was feathering the pedal to manage EGTs. Last mod session I added the new S366 turbo, bellowed up pipes, valve springs,and pushrods. As you guys know, we bought a new 5er and it weighs 9000 lbs dry weight (over 2000 lbs more than the old one). It tows it like a champ.. On the 5 plus hour trip back home from RRE, the only time I had to come out of 5th gear on a hill was coming up Flat Top Mtn on I77 in WV. I topped that mountain doing 63 mph in 4th gear with EGTs never making it to 1200.......... In my case, it seems like adding fuel and power only added to my high EGT problem. Adding the bigger turbo, which pushes more air through it did the trick. (Just my .02)
/meth injection. This would help hold down EGTs when using straight distilled water. On the washer fluid, it only added to the high EGT problem. Added an intercooler and custom TW tunes. I now had plenty of power to pull the 5er, but could not use it because going uphill I was feathering the pedal to manage EGTs. Last mod session I added the new S366 turbo, bellowed up pipes, valve springs,and pushrods. As you guys know, we bought a new 5er and it weighs 9000 lbs dry weight (over 2000 lbs more than the old one). It tows it like a champ.. On the 5 plus hour trip back home from RRE, the only time I had to come out of 5th gear on a hill was coming up Flat Top Mtn on I77 in WV. I topped that mountain doing 63 mph in 4th gear with EGTs never making it to 1200.......... In my case, it seems like adding fuel and power only added to my high EGT problem. Adding the bigger turbo, which pushes more air through it did the trick. (Just my .02)
Hotshot
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 10,590
Likes: 382
From: Texas
Thomas and other guys, not to talk something to death, but the following quote comes from a guy that is an auto/HD truck engineer. This is where I got my peace of mind regarding oil temps. I only post this because this guy has done his research and continues to do his research. He really knows his stuff.
"I think we need to clarify the question here, or more specifically, understand that there are actually two questions likely being addressed:
1) what is a safe temp for the ISX
2) what is a safe temp for the lube
I don't know enough about the operational parameters set into the PCM for the ISX; someone else will have to help out here.
As for the lube, 250F is in no way unsafe. Even a conventional lube can provide a good performance if the base stock is of good quality. I believe an ideal temp would be 200-225F; most would agree about that. But a little spike in oil temp is not going to grenade the engine nor the lube. Even long sustained runs are tolerable. If you were to approach 300F in the sump, I would be concerned. But not at 250F.
And just for reference, before any of you go off half-cocked and say I'm nuts, I'll offer this bit of information ...
In the infamous GM filter study (881825), they ran the DD-60 engines at full load, with the sump at 250F for the entire duration of all the tests. Eight hours at a time. Repeated several times. On conventional lube from 1988.
And while we also would agree that massive oxidation insolubles are a bad thing, I'll remind you all that some amount of high-heat oxidation is actually a good thing, because it promotes the TCB (tribo chemical boundary layer) formation on the part wear surfaces. Or have you all forgot about SAE 2007-01-4133? This anti-wear layer of oxidation byproduct is actually a good thing, and is bolstered by higher heat. Once it is established, wear rates typically drop precipitously by and order of magnitude to near-zero levels (a direct quote from the study).
Several years ago, I flogged my Dmax pulling our RV through the Rockies and into the desert southwest for summer vacation. I let the sump get as low as I could tolerate on the dipstick. I ran that engine with no mercy in regard to throttle; if I wanted to move, I floored it, at times for minutes on end in uphill pulls out of the valley floors and over ranges. I am sure the turbo temps got hot; the EGT was maxed at OEM limits around 1300F countless times on the trip. And when I got back, and pulled the UOA, everything was completely normal; totally within specs for both the wear metals and the lube conditions. All on dino 10w-30 Rotella TP.
Is there a reason to fear lube degradation? Sure. But not at 250F."
Hope it helps regarding those of us who worry about oil temps
"I think we need to clarify the question here, or more specifically, understand that there are actually two questions likely being addressed:
1) what is a safe temp for the ISX
2) what is a safe temp for the lube
I don't know enough about the operational parameters set into the PCM for the ISX; someone else will have to help out here.
As for the lube, 250F is in no way unsafe. Even a conventional lube can provide a good performance if the base stock is of good quality. I believe an ideal temp would be 200-225F; most would agree about that. But a little spike in oil temp is not going to grenade the engine nor the lube. Even long sustained runs are tolerable. If you were to approach 300F in the sump, I would be concerned. But not at 250F.
And just for reference, before any of you go off half-cocked and say I'm nuts, I'll offer this bit of information ...
In the infamous GM filter study (881825), they ran the DD-60 engines at full load, with the sump at 250F for the entire duration of all the tests. Eight hours at a time. Repeated several times. On conventional lube from 1988.
And while we also would agree that massive oxidation insolubles are a bad thing, I'll remind you all that some amount of high-heat oxidation is actually a good thing, because it promotes the TCB (tribo chemical boundary layer) formation on the part wear surfaces. Or have you all forgot about SAE 2007-01-4133? This anti-wear layer of oxidation byproduct is actually a good thing, and is bolstered by higher heat. Once it is established, wear rates typically drop precipitously by and order of magnitude to near-zero levels (a direct quote from the study).
Several years ago, I flogged my Dmax pulling our RV through the Rockies and into the desert southwest for summer vacation. I let the sump get as low as I could tolerate on the dipstick. I ran that engine with no mercy in regard to throttle; if I wanted to move, I floored it, at times for minutes on end in uphill pulls out of the valley floors and over ranges. I am sure the turbo temps got hot; the EGT was maxed at OEM limits around 1300F countless times on the trip. And when I got back, and pulled the UOA, everything was completely normal; totally within specs for both the wear metals and the lube conditions. All on dino 10w-30 Rotella TP.
Is there a reason to fear lube degradation? Sure. But not at 250F."
Hope it helps regarding those of us who worry about oil temps
Lead Driver
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,132
Likes: 45
From: Columbus, Oh
Thomas and other guys, not to talk something to death, but the following quote comes from a guy that is an auto/HD truck engineer. This is where I got my peace of mind regarding oil temps. I only post this because this guy has done his research and continues to do his research. He really knows his stuff.
"I think we need to clarify the question here, or more specifically, understand that there are actually two questions likely being addressed:
1) what is a safe temp for the ISX
2) what is a safe temp for the lube
I don't know enough about the operational parameters set into the PCM for the ISX; someone else will have to help out here.
As for the lube, 250F is in no way unsafe. Even a conventional lube can provide a good performance if the base stock is of good quality. I believe an ideal temp would be 200-225F; most would agree about that. But a little spike in oil temp is not going to grenade the engine nor the lube. Even long sustained runs are tolerable. If you were to approach 300F in the sump, I would be concerned. But not at 250F.
And just for reference, before any of you go off half-cocked and say I'm nuts, I'll offer this bit of information ...
In the infamous GM filter study (881825), they ran the DD-60 engines at full load, with the sump at 250F for the entire duration of all the tests. Eight hours at a time. Repeated several times. On conventional lube from 1988.
And while we also would agree that massive oxidation insolubles are a bad thing, I'll remind you all that some amount of high-heat oxidation is actually a good thing, because it promotes the TCB (tribo chemical boundary layer) formation on the part wear surfaces. Or have you all forgot about SAE 2007-01-4133? This anti-wear layer of oxidation byproduct is actually a good thing, and is bolstered by higher heat. Once it is established, wear rates typically drop precipitously by and order of magnitude to near-zero levels (a direct quote from the study).
Several years ago, I flogged my Dmax pulling our RV through the Rockies and into the desert southwest for summer vacation. I let the sump get as low as I could tolerate on the dipstick. I ran that engine with no mercy in regard to throttle; if I wanted to move, I floored it, at times for minutes on end in uphill pulls out of the valley floors and over ranges. I am sure the turbo temps got hot; the EGT was maxed at OEM limits around 1300F countless times on the trip. And when I got back, and pulled the UOA, everything was completely normal; totally within specs for both the wear metals and the lube conditions. All on dino 10w-30 Rotella TP.
Is there a reason to fear lube degradation? Sure. But not at 250F."
Hope it helps regarding those of us who worry about oil temps
"I think we need to clarify the question here, or more specifically, understand that there are actually two questions likely being addressed:
1) what is a safe temp for the ISX
2) what is a safe temp for the lube
I don't know enough about the operational parameters set into the PCM for the ISX; someone else will have to help out here.
As for the lube, 250F is in no way unsafe. Even a conventional lube can provide a good performance if the base stock is of good quality. I believe an ideal temp would be 200-225F; most would agree about that. But a little spike in oil temp is not going to grenade the engine nor the lube. Even long sustained runs are tolerable. If you were to approach 300F in the sump, I would be concerned. But not at 250F.
And just for reference, before any of you go off half-cocked and say I'm nuts, I'll offer this bit of information ...
In the infamous GM filter study (881825), they ran the DD-60 engines at full load, with the sump at 250F for the entire duration of all the tests. Eight hours at a time. Repeated several times. On conventional lube from 1988.
And while we also would agree that massive oxidation insolubles are a bad thing, I'll remind you all that some amount of high-heat oxidation is actually a good thing, because it promotes the TCB (tribo chemical boundary layer) formation on the part wear surfaces. Or have you all forgot about SAE 2007-01-4133? This anti-wear layer of oxidation byproduct is actually a good thing, and is bolstered by higher heat. Once it is established, wear rates typically drop precipitously by and order of magnitude to near-zero levels (a direct quote from the study).
Several years ago, I flogged my Dmax pulling our RV through the Rockies and into the desert southwest for summer vacation. I let the sump get as low as I could tolerate on the dipstick. I ran that engine with no mercy in regard to throttle; if I wanted to move, I floored it, at times for minutes on end in uphill pulls out of the valley floors and over ranges. I am sure the turbo temps got hot; the EGT was maxed at OEM limits around 1300F countless times on the trip. And when I got back, and pulled the UOA, everything was completely normal; totally within specs for both the wear metals and the lube conditions. All on dino 10w-30 Rotella TP.
Is there a reason to fear lube degradation? Sure. But not at 250F."
Hope it helps regarding those of us who worry about oil temps
Posting Guru
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,002
Likes: 38
From: State of Delusion.
Just a suggestion but if your gonna do a gear swap you might as well just buy used SD axles with 4.10s already in them. Youll end up at about 1k anyway after your rebuild kits/gears f/r. Plus all the little tools youll have to buy to do a gear swap (another $1000) . A shop will charge you about $400 a diff. Ive done quite a few, and personally Im more of a fan of doing them on 14 bolts. (backlash adjusters are so nice) SD axles are bolt on for our trucks if I remember right. An axle swap is easier in my opinion then r/p swaps. R/P swaps are quite a venture if you've never done them before, the tiniest shims make a huge difference. Finding gear pattern, pinion depth, backlash, and pinion/ ring gear bearing preload is frustrating sometimes. Just my .02, but I am just a caveman.