Hi Guys,

Question:

If my diesel engine is apart and has been diagnosed, shouldn't the shop where it's in for repair be able to give me a firm quote, from that stage of the job, to completion?

Back Story:

I'm one of the many that am stuck with a Ford LCF with a bad engine. It's a 2007 and I purchased the truck in early 2009 and am the original owner. It currently had 46,000 original miles on it.

A couple of weeks ago, it was driving to a supply yard and it starting bucking pretty badly so we pulled over and stopped immediately.

Upon getting it diagnosed at a local diesel shop they determined that the connecting rod bearing on cylinder one was spun and a new engine was going to be $25,000 Cdn.

I called 2 other shops and they didn't even want to look at it once they found out about what it was.

I reluctantly went to the dealership where I bought the truck and talked to them and they said they thought they could fix it.

Turns out that they can fix it and, as we speak, the engine is out, disassembled and the service manage says they know how much labour costs will be and are 90% sure on the parts. As it stands they "think" it will be $7,000 with parts and labour when they're done but they're asking me to be prepared for up to $9,000, "just to cover our ***." He says that once they get into the assembly of the engine they may require more parts to complete the job.

Does this sound fishy or am I missing something?

Thanks for the time. I look forward to any opinions I can get before proceeding.

 

I would not say "fishy." When I diagnose a concern and come up with a repair quote there are times when I need to make sure that everyone involved understands that once repairs begin, additional repairs or parts my be required. I understand that your engine is currently out of the truck and disassembled. I would expect that a fairly complete estimate should be presented in this situation however expected additional parts are sometimes required. On a big job such as this I will often over quote to cover additional un-expected parts. Most of the time I do get it right and the customer gets a smaller bill. This is likely the case in this instance and I suspect that it may simply be a matter of how this was presented or explained to you. I don't understand the $2000 difference though. That is a bit much. Perhaps that dealership does not have much experience with the 4.5L Power Stroke. I have worked on many of these trucks/engines but have yet to come across a base engine failure and I can certainly understand their trepidation. I would not worry too much though. The engine is very similar to a 6.0L and an experienced Ford diesel technician should do a good job.

 

Hi Keith,

Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

I agree with your assessment of how it was explained to me. I've been please with the level of communication they've given, I just thought a little more detail on parts needed would have been expected; Something in writing.

I've given them the go-ahead and I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Now the question is... Do I sell the truck immediately after it leaves the shop, lol! I'm just a little leery in continuing with this truck since it spun a bearing so early in it's life! Both shops, including the dealership commended me on my level of maintenance on the engine and truck, in general. Since buying the truck, I've read a lot of bad reviews on the 6.0L and the 4.5L Ford diesels, both from experienced diesel mechanics and owners alike.

The truck that this replaced was a 1990 F-Super Duty with a 7.3L in it. I bought it with 82,000 miles on it and when I sold it, it had just turned 366,000 miles and other than basic maintenance, etc. that engine really gave me confidence! The only reason I sold it was because it needed a head gasket job and I had been wanting a dump body for our landscape business anyway, so, the rest is history.

Anyway, do you have any advice with these engines? Would you have confidence after this level of repair? The mechanic at the dealership showed me the engine and commented on how pristine it looked other than the bearing damage it sustained. The crankshaft was in good shape so they had it machined accordingly.

Any thoughts and/or words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks again!

 

I personally like that engine however it does share some of the weaknesses of the 6.0L. High pressure oil leaks, FICM failures and an occasional EGR cooler. EGR coolers on this engine don't have as high of a failure rate as the later 6.0L does. Maintain the coolant and keep an eye on the primary fuel filter for evidence of the fuel tank rusting. Remember that this engine also uses the same fuel injectors the 6.0L uses and fail for the same reasons. Ask the repairing dealer to replace the fuel pressure regulator with the updated spring, seals and hardware... part number 6E7Z-9C165-B for the LCF.

Good luck with it!

 

Wow.. all i can say is WOW!... I own a fleet service company, we specialize in the LCF trucks (we have at least 2 in our bays at any given time) We also rebuild, address the known issues and fail points on the VT275 (4.5L) , and also sell reman engines. I sell COMPLETE reman engines that are complete from the oilpan to the turbo (heads rebuilt etc.) and everything in between for only 10k, I do COMPLETE rebuilds for people including the heads and block for only 7 to 8 k, with me furnishing all the parts. ( A brand new engine never set in a truck is 19k just so you know) These people are ripping you off!

 

Hi Delusion,
Since I last replied to this thread the price is now up to "approximately" $14,000. I've put the job on hold and the shop is waiting for my reply.
I'm simply weighing my options at this point.
Where are you located? I'm sure we're not close geographically as I'm located in Vancouver, Canada.
If I could get the job done for around $7000 I'd invest the money and sell the truck. I just don't have a lot of faith in this engine, as you might imagine.
If I could find a little cummins for this truck I'd probably do that and keep the truck.
Any thoughts and/or suggestions you have would be greatly appreciated.

 

I'm located in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. I'm used to shipping engines so i'm sure that would not be a problem. I buy VT275 (4.5L) parts in bulk and get good discounts, not to mention our experience with them saves time in the shop.
I have a COMPLETE, ready to drop in rebuilt engine I can ship directly to you for $7,000 + shipping. Simply pay for a swap instead of a rebuild and save thousands with an engine already built & upgraded. By complete i mean everything from the oil pan to the turbo, even includes the alternator with the belt already on - unbolt your engine, drop this one in.

I sent you a message with my contact info, or you can visit my website at Tuscaloosa Diesel Repair |Truck Repair| Equipment repair | RV repair , then click on "Engines for sale" at the top of the page if you're interested.
Engine includes:

Machined & Inspected block
NEW Reman Injectors from International
NEW Crankshaft
NEW Camshaft
NEW Connecting rods
NEW Pistons
NEW Low pressure (lift) Oil Pump
NEW Oil Cooler
NEW Upgraded EGR Cooler (fail point)
NEW High pressure Oil Rail Ball Tubes & Orings (IE: Rebuilt high pressure oil rail)
Reman Heads
Reman High Pressure Oil Pump (HPOP) with warranty
Reman Turbo (with warranty)
NEW EGR Valve
NEW Oil & Fuel filter housings with blue spring fuel pressure upgrade kit (fail point)
NEW One piece fitting to replace the STC at the the HPOP (known fail point)
NEW upgraded stand pipes & Dummy plugs (known fail point)

 

Just to bookend this saga, I ended up going ahead with the engine repair on my LCF since Ford Canada put $6000 toward the repair costs.

My intention was to use the truck while looking for a suitable replacement since it had a 2-year warranty on the engine work.

Well, unfortunately, 6 months and 6 thousand kilometres later, the engine started acting up again.
I had it towed back to the Ford dealership that did the repair and yesterday I found out the work won't be covered. It turns out that this time the problem is the crank is broken in 2 pieces. With the last episode it was a "spun bearing" in cylinder #1 and they only had to have the crank machined, not replaced, therefore they're not covering it.

And so ends a once faithful relationship with this company.

Thanks for reading!

 

I'm very sorry to hear that. with only 6 months / 6k on the engine it should still have been fully warrantied.

On a side note, the ONLY time i've seen cranks damaged and spun bearings so soon after a build is when they "shortcut" the torque procedure on the mains. There is a VERY specific 3 step torque sequence that if you try to shortcut will cause premature bearing failure and binding on the crank in worst case scenario's.
The torque sequence MUST be followed, and ALL THREE torque steps completed!
IE: The proper way to torque a VT275 Main is to torque the bolts to 90ft lbs, then 120ft lbs, then finish off with 170ft lbs. - Skip a step and you'll bind the crank causing premature failure.

The VT275 may be "based" on the VT365 (6.0) But it requires a certain experience level to know what the changes made to the engine setup changed in the way you have to build it.
A VT275 is a temperamental little beast, but like it's predecessor, if done correctly can be a quite strong and dependable engine.

We do so many of these engines that we literally own VT275.com and FordLCF.com (yes we do VT275's for Workhorse and other applications also)

http://vt275.com
Ford LCF Parts for sale

 

Hi Delusion,

Thanks for the reply.

It's too bad I'm not located closer to you. That would make things easier.

I may get a lawyer involved because it's hard not to feel like we're getting screwed, here!

It looks like we'll be truck shopping tomorrow.

Thanks for reading!

 

Old thread, but you guys may know...non-running LCF for sale, guy sends this pic of the odometer. Does that message mean the ECM is gone, or is it a standard display before starting? They look so easy to work on, I thought whatever top-end problem it could have, I could handle. But I'm lost on electronics, and don't want to get into cranks and pistons.

 

Hey there,

I've had my LCF since 2010 and have never seen this message on the display on startup, or at all, for that matter.

If you don't mind me asking, what are the particulars on the non-running LCF? Year, price, etc.

I hope this helps!

 

There is no communication with the ECM. It could be as simple as a blown fuse, or the computer or instrument cluster could be fried.

 

^^^ correct^^^
if i remember correctly the OBD port gets it's power from the cigarette lighter fuse. if the lighter is not working, the OBD port will not work.

 

Hate to hijack but it looks like we have a few lcf owners in this thread. Anyone have an idea of what part I am missing here?