I am looking for a recommendation for a reasonably priced scan tool for a country boy.
My observations about AE is you about need to be a Rocket Scientist to use that program. I really need to be able to tell if my injectors, sensors, etc. are working correctly.
Any help will be appreciated.
Thanks,
Oldboots

 

From my understanding there are really only two tools which are capable of communicating "well" with the systems in our trucks, AE and the NGS.

For basic diagnostics I have heard that the NGS is fairly straightforward to use, its only once you want to get around to data graphing and sharing that you have to get into the software end of things. Maybe someone with the NGS will chime in here, but I think it is fairly simplistic. That being said I don't think you would have much luck finding one for cheaper than the price of AE.

I think you have a pretty good understanding of AE from reading other threads so you should be able to make your own judgement on that.

With that being said, do you want to have something that you can play with whenever you want, or are you more looking for something to help you out when you're in trouble?

If you don't absolutely want it so you can play and experiment with it whenever, I suggest finding someone locally to help you out. I see BigAlsPSD is about an hour from you. This would keep you from having to spend money on something you may not like to use, and would give you a reason to meet up with a member of the brotherhood. Along with the link to the B.E.S.T. map, that I stole from Tugly's signature, you could check out the Missouri and Arkansas chapters and see if anybody locally could help you out.

B.E.S.T. Map

Of course, you could always drive up to MN and use my AE, I like meeting the FTE guys when I can.

Baatzy

 

Baatzy,
While I appreciate the invitation it would be a lot of time and fuel for a old guy.
My concern is not so much in price (I leave that for my wife to catch me on) as, if I would understand navigation of the tool.
I did talk to Clay (Riffraff) and ask what I use as a baseline to work from and he suggested a Ford Dealer Service Manual would provide that information.
I don't really need the tool so much as wanting one to keep up with the heartbeat of my truck.
This has been a great site for me and I have saved hundreds of $$$ because of the guys and gals who take the time to share.


I read the Diesel O-Ring post earlier. Kind of sad. Laundry should be done behind closed doors. You never know who will see your skid marks when you do it in the open.


Thanks for your input.
Oldboots

 

I didn't figure I could get you to come visit the northland, but I thought I might as well offer.

If you aren't too worried about price I would definitely look at the NGS, perhaps pm some of the guys on here that have it to ask about its ease of use. I believe timhodgson and y2kw57 are a couple of members who have it. Personally I would like to have the NGS as well, but I unfortunately I can't speak for its ease of use.

I agree with Clay on the Service Manual, that's another thing I would like to have myself.

I also agree with you on both counts. The people on here are amazing with their help and experience, they make it affordable to have a 7.3. I think it was well within his right to express his opinion but I think it could have been done in a more objective way, that wouldn't leave so many people feeling sore at each other. Either way I do think it is kind of sad to see such a big battle arise over an opinion.

Baatzy

 

I will take a look at the NGS.
Thanks!

 

I bought one of these and have used it on 3 of my vehicles with zero problems.


I like the wireless and phone app features.

 

The manual they speak of I believe is the Powertrain/Emissions Diagnostic Manual for the Appropriate Year you need. You can find It and the NGS Devices for sale on Slebay. I found the entire Ford family for 2002 in it's cover for around $50. I'm sure it would be different for others. The same is true for the NGS. Every price from High 300's and up depending on what comes with it. Lots of accessories.it was FOMOCO premier diagnostic tool for their dealerships until they entered obsolescence....

 

Well, first, prior to anything else, you will need to gain an understanding of the hydraulically activated, electronically controlled, unit injector (HEUI) fuel system. The majority who purchase these tools do not. And, hence the existence of this Forum and many others.



That's easier said than done with any tool available. The 7.3L’s direct injection fuel delivery method and electronics allowed for computer-controlled timing advance, cleaner emissions, and the ability to make more horsepower and torque than the other two brands.


Ford, with its marriage to International, jumped at the chance to offer the HEUI-equipped, Navistar-built 7.3L in its ¾-ton-and-larger trucks.


What 90% of the people here and who are familiar with these engines don't know that BOTH International and Caterpillar developed this system and, its in use World Wide in just about every application imaginable.

You are NOT alone. I have been part time working on these since about 1994 when IH and CAT introduced these into the market.


I did not gain a good understanding until about 1999 when I was fortunate enough to attend the International Training Class offered in Las Vegas NV. by International and Caterpillar.


Over the years, I have compiled about ten scan tools. Anywhere from $100 to $8,000 each from AE to Snap-On and everything in between. But, one is no greater than the other without the understanding of the system your are analyzing.

Regardless, a "Basic" Scan Tool is only one of the many tools necessary to diagnose these systems or even know if its doing whats it's supposed to at any given time.


1. A Complete Library for the specific vehicle MY you are working on is required. Some of these are the Factory (Ford) Service Manual, PCM Emissions, Wiring, and Troubleshooting manuals are necessary.

2. Tools: Another consideration is necessary tools to use in conjunction with the above such as Pressure Gauges, Digital Volt OHM Meters, and the like.


In summary, before you spend your money on Scan Tools, I urge you to chase down some reading material for these trucks and absorb all you can. In the end, you will make the decision that best fits your understanding and need as well as the "evolution" of these systems. Now that Ford has a totally different type of system, the DIY'r will soon be the primary diagnostic and repair technician available. I say this because, as a contractor for several dealerships and shops, the new systems are the ones the "younger" techs are being introduced to in the light duty trucks. Combined of the three dealerships, there are four techs who are certified on these systems (HEUI). And in a couple years I'll give it up all together because of Social Security Income limitations.


Here are some links to get you started: These don't specifically pertain to the DIT but nonetheless, the learning will be well worth it.


HEUI - How High-Pressure Oil Injection Systems Work - Diesel Power Magazine


http://pdf.cat.com/cda/files/87775/7/pehp9526.pdf


http://www.dtftool.com/PDF/HEUI/heui_1-08.pdf




I'm going to throw this in because I use it for Students at a local tech School I help out with:


echo=on
OBD-II On-Board Diagnostics, Phase 2 Vehicle Media Communications Unit (Scanner).


Here are a few in alphabetical order:


Autel MaxiSYS – Hands down, the best Scanner for Domestic, Asian, and European. This Tool Mimics the OEM Tool Operation on just about every MY and Manufacturer, this tool beats the competition in all areas. * ** Cost - $2,900.00. Review: 4.5*


AutoEnginuity - Scan Tool, Entry to intermediate level diagnostics. PID Monitor, Basic Tests, DTC Database (no troubleshooting) Average Quality, Lacks Support Professionalism. * ** Cost - $249 + Enhanced Software Bundles from $99 - $1000 (an add as you go system) Renewal fees are based on the number of Enhanced Bundles one has a liscense for. 1 Liscense is $50 annual, 2-5 is $150 annual, etc, etc, etc. Review: 2.5*


Bosch – Professional Based – Average Quality and Support * **


Delphi Professional Based – Average Quality and Support * **


Diablo Sport - Predator – PCM Programming Module, Monitor PID's and retrieving DIT's, DTC Database (no troubleshooting) * **


Edge – Don’t know a lot about these. Have never used one myself.


Ford DIS - VCM-II: The Best, Top of the line, most inclusive unit designed for Ford, DTC Database Troubleshooting Directions* ** - Cost $8k – $10k Review: 5*


Hickok NGS - Newstar Diagnostic Unit - Ford Specific, DTC Database (no troubleshooting), most inclusive unit designed for the 7.3, DTC Database Troubleshooting Directions* ** requires interchangeable program cards for specific MY’s. - Cost $500 – $1k on e-Bay (Obsolete Unit), Review 4* You may have problems when buying from e-bay. I know several people who did not receive the cards displayed with the units or listed. Some cards have damage from being abused in tool box's. Buyer beware.


OBDLink SX - Entry to intermediate level diagnostics. PID Monitor, Basic Tests, DTC Database (no troubleshooting) Average Quality, Support, and Up-Date. * ** Review: 3.5 *


OCT - Entry to intermediate level diagnostics. PID Monitor, Basic Tests, DTC Database (no troubleshooting) Average Quality, Support, and Up-Date. * ** Review: 3.5 *


Snap-On - MODIS - Scan Tool, PID Monitor, Testing, DTC Database Troubleshooting Directions. Not as good as the Autel MaxiSYS. Cost - $2k - $4k Review: 4 *


ScanGauge-II X-Gauge - Monitoring PID's and retrieving DIT's, DTC Database (no troubleshooting) Cost - $200.00
TorkPro - Android Based PC Interface w/ ELM27 Bluetooth


* Some require Subscriptions for Up-Dates.


** Some require Internet Access for Up-Dates


Ps: You get what you pay for when buying diagnostic equipment.


Remember: Branded Tools, ie: Snap-On are tools manufactured and supplied under a branded name. They are available from the manufacturer without the Brand and are less expensive and the same quality.


I have used just about every Scan Tool over the past 30 years. These are my opinions based on my use and interations with the companies. There is no intent to sway the reader one way or the other.

echo=off

 

Many thanks for those links Tom.....some great reading there.

 

Great post Thom.

 

Whoa... I'm in rep jail.

I have an Android device, and I use Torque Pro for regular PID monitoring and logging. When I troubleshoot, I have a netbook with Windows 7 and AE 10 on it. I like what I have, but I don't like the newer AE stuff.

 

HEUI injector = Windex spray bottle. The Windex handle has the supply line (tube), pump (spring when you release the handle), reservoir, and it just sits there with a small reservoir of fuel until acted upon. Squeezing the handle is like the High Pressure Oil Pump pushing the limited quantity of fuel out of the internal reservoir. Once that fuel is spent, you have to release the handle to refill the reservoir.

 

Tom,
Thank you for the detailed response. Based on the information you have supplied, I have decided that I will just pay a dealer the $60 - $90 they want to run codes for me. That way I have eliminated a dust collector on the shelf and will keep my money in my pocket.
I have made several repairs on my truck based in information I have received back from other members based on the symptoms I supplied. I have literally saved thousands of dollars because of the membership.
In closing I say thanks to all....
Oldboots

 

whitetmw's post would make a great start for a sticky in a dedicated scan tool forum.


(What is an appropriate nickname for a "Tugly volunteer?")