On November 30th, I am shutting down my business and semi-retiring or something. Up until this point I have purposely avoided learning more than I have had to know about my truck. Just didn't have the time and hate doing things half-assed. So this is my first question. I am going to purchase something to make sense of what is working or not working. That means something expensive or something less expensive.

I do not want to use my phone as a read-out device. I hate the small screen. I already carry a lap top with me for working on RVs so nothing new there.

I do not intend to bury myself in diagnostics. I can afford AutoEnginuity, but it strikes me that possibly it is overkill.

On the other hand, the consumer reviews for Forscan on Amazon are really not very good. I am not intimidated by technology, but don't want to fight a learning curve for the truck and fight with a diagnostic tool at the same time.

So comparing the two, what can I do with AutoEnginuity I can't do with Forscan. Or if you have Forscan, has it limited you in a "meaningful" way? I am not always a Harbor Freight guy, but don't think Snap On is the answer for every tool.

Steve

 

I have a two year old version of AE and it can be cantankerous, there have been no good reports and some bad reports on the latest version of AE so if you can't find an older one I'd steer clear of that. Tugly hasa a link in his signature for scanners that could answer a lot of your questions and/or stimulate new ones. I'd take a peek at that and see what you find.

 

I started there and followed his link to Amazon for the reader, but the reviews are kind of "love it, hate it". If that is the best I can do, I will have to chance it, but it sounded like how I would review the technology I have to work on in RVs. Its great when it works and not so much when it doesn't.

Unfortunately in this case, it sounds like even if I spend more I may not get more.

Steve

 

Subscribing. I too am interested in taking my understanding, diagnostic skills and even repair skilld to the next level. Here in Canada, they want about $237 plus another $30 for shipping. Not worth buying it here for sure.

I'd really be interested in other good, budget friendly options if they exist. A couple years back I was seriously considering jumping on AE. However, it was spendy and I didn't want to invest that much. The world has evolved with TorquePro and other tools become more affordable.

I am curious as to what you discover Steve.

 

Since you have the background that you do, I would strongly suggest the OBDLink LX if you have no plans to work on modern Chebbys, or the OBDLink MX if you want the most universal Bluetooth/OBDII adapter. This is one of those very specific times where you don't want to Walmart, Harbor Freight, or eBay your way out of spending for a proper tool. Many, many of the unhappy campers out there are solely because of them trying to cheap out with one of those blue $10 adapters from the far East.

When you read the reviews, take into consideration what their skill level is, what they're looking for, and the nature of an OBDII tool. If the reviewer was looking for a magic black box that told them precisely what part needed to be replaced - using layman's terms, then they will be profoundly disappointed. If the reviewer is under the impression that you plug everything in, fire everything up, and everything auto-sets from there - the review would likely go R-rated for language. If the reviewer is looking for a glossy representation of a virtual dash, with themes and colors matching their vehicle - then many of the OBDII tools out there will get a scathing review.

You are looking for a tool. Like most tools we shop for, you want the best tool you can buy for a reasonable cost - or at least an optimal return on investment. I have AE, and I've tried almost every inexpensive or free app out there that interfaces with our J1850 PWM OBDII protocol. AE was the king of inexpensive apps for a long time, then a number of app writers started knocking the doors down - like Torque Pro and Car Gauge Pro. TP is commonplace for monitoring the sensors, but CGP was one of the earliest (if not the first) smart phone app to do a buzz test or a CCT. CGP gets terrible reviews because it is quite possibly the worst user interface I have ever run into - and I'm no newb. I'd even go so far as to say it borders on dangerous, because I'm not 100% sold that it returns the vehicle to normal operation after it conducts some of the tests. I can be way off-base here, so CGP warrants more review before a decision is made there. I'll just say I had it, I tried it, I yanked it.

I use FORScan for all my troubleshooting now. There are some display and playback features in AE that I like better than the ones in FORScan, but I like the PID 3D playback (written by a FTE member) far better than anything I've ever seen in any app. AE, with its incompatibility with certain operating systems, very slow Pro-Line OBDII/USB adapter, and various versions having issues with PID math is far weaker than FORScan as a tool. Now... if you were to compare the Giotto version of AE (since Windows 8) with FORScan - AE gets laughed right the hell off the field.

In summary - look hard at those offering up bad reviews on FORScan. Are the reviewers at your skill level, looking for a device that can do what you want yours to do on a teen-aged vehicle? Those with a set of keys but no tools, and no interest in sorting out this whole BT/WiFi/Android/apple mess will likely buy into BlueDriver. Those in the automotive field (particularly a dealership mechanic) will poo-poo many of our options, because they are spoiled by the professional OBDII tools their company spent thousands of dollars on. Those with cheap ELM327 adapters will snivel about every OBDII app they own - just some less than others.

Once you have your proper OBDII adapter, you have options. FORScan has been free on PC so far - nothing to lose there. If you're not satisfied, you can "scope out" other options.

 

Thanks, I appreciate the summation. I understand what you are saying about reviewers. I will move ahead with purchasing in the next few days. I have always said anyone can sound like a technician for one sentence. I always listen to the second sentence.

I read frequently in this forum, but will not contribute until I think I know enough to post.

Steve

 

My OBDII Link should be here Wednesday and I have downloaded FORscan into my laptop. Ordering a fuel pressure gauge and mount from Riffraff tomorrow, so I should be set for the next step.

I now have a vacuum leak so my AC is blowing out the defrost. Will put on new hoses at the hubs tomorrow thinking that is a good place to start and the hoses look like they are cracked. Let the fun begin.

Steve

 

Subscribing. I'm looking at trying to learn the Forscan thing too. I ordered my MX connector today.

As I understand it, you have to joint their forum to get some sort of unlock code? A quick scan of the forum looks like you only get an unlock code that lasts a couple of months?

What am I missing?

 

I'm not sure. I downloaded, but haven't had time to do anything with it yet. I'll update, when I move ahead.

Steve

 

It appears you're on the fence at this point. Not know what you want, or how in-depth you will need to go (or want to). And, there is nothing wrong with that perspective. Most people just buy "something" to satisfy their want or need. So, KUDO's to you for putting it out there.


In 30 years I have used every thing from a Sun II to an IDS. That includes Snap-On, Maxell, AE, and a hundred more incidentals.


Unless I'm wrong in my assumption, just about all hand held devices run some type of Android Proprietary System. Some use Microsoft something or other, and AE is a PC based system. Maxell I believe is a hybrid of both.


There are many options for connection. And, as stated above, you get what you pay for. Those being, hard wire, WiFi, Bluetooth, etc.


So, todays developers are in competition with each other and that's a good thing for the end user.


The considerations I would employ is:


1. What is the application environment it would be used in? Will you be using this to make money? Just DIY? Helping others? Use it on other vehicles you own.


For example, unless you purchase a Chrysler Specific Package you're going to be very limited doing anything, including Data retrieval. They are brutal in that they don't release much of anything other than the Generic OBD-II required by Law. But, release to several Industry Brand Name Scantool Manufacturer's. And, if you're going to do Asian, Japanese, or German, hold on to your Pocket Book.


2. Will you be diagnosing 08 and later CAN Systems? A PC Based or Name Brand Tool will be required to take full advantage of the systems capabilities. Prior to 08, domestic were RAD, PATTS, GEM, etc. OR, perhaps another vehicle in your "fleet"?


3. Will you be doing any programming at all? If so, you would want a tool compatible with a pass-through Connector. That limits them drastically.


4. If you'll be using it for Data Monitoring and some limited testing, the Light Weight Android / OIS / Windows Systems will fit your need nicely. Ford used PWM for 90% of its vehicles up until 2008. The exception being the Fusion and another which is, for all practical purposes Asian.


If your seeking a quality, durable tool (durable being the key) you'll need to buy additional configuration packages or Keys like Snap-On uses.


What Scantool is right for you is a question only you can answer. And, keep in mind, a Scantool is just that, a Tool. Often many diagnostic tools are required to determine the exact problem. A Multimeter is an excellent addition. A Oscilloscope is the ultimate addition. And, today, you can get a quality 2 Channel DSO for about $400 - $600.


The two Bottom Line indications here are: How much will you want to learn in the future and how in-depth a learning curve will be encountered.


Just some stirring of the old Brain Cells...

 

I wan to back up a minute here and ask this. As I read, it strikes me the scan tools for the most part are reading voltages or perhaps more correctly, changes in voltages. A scan tool is simply a tool which puts multiple readings together and generates an output. I have high-end multimeters and are reasonably proficient with them, but I guess there is no way to capture the readings that scan tools are capable of.

I have occasionally seen high end scan tools with the proprietary packages for sale used, still not cheap by a long shot. Anyone have experience in that arena. I am not going to try to earn a living at this, but historically I have purchased top-of-line when I felt it necessary (within reason).

Steve

 

I have one of these in this [LINK] and it works as advertised. While I'm not a huge fan of products manufactured in the far east, this one has a solid look and feel to it. If it fails early, I'm out 60 bucks... but I think it will be just fine for what I need it for.

Here's a Bluetooth version I seriously contemplated before my $60 experiment took place: [LINK] Don't forget to order probes.



When Steve mentioned retirement and wanting something for the truck, I got it in my head he was looking for an OBDII scanner "Lite". FORScan works on Fords - the subject matter on our venerable forum, plus it works on Mazda.

Steve is right about the meter not being able to log data, and logging is the Holy Grail for us technician types. We want to know exactly what happened and how it happened, in order to figure out how to stop what one doesn't want to happen. FORScan is not a meter - it doesn't take any readings or perform any tests on the vehicle. Like all the OBDII tools I've used to-date, it just talks to the PCM, ECU, "God Box", or whatever you call it - via the OBDII communication protocol of the vehicle. The PCM reads the voltages and initiates the tests, the OBDII tool just knows "which button to push" in the PCM to get the desired result - be it a reading from a PID or a buzz test. All the magic attributed to the consumer OBDII tool is, in reality, nothing more than a matter of the OBDII tool accessing what the PCM is programmed to do... period.

I have the free beta version of FORScan, and I know there are pay-fer versions on Google Play and iTunes, so I have always assumed that when the PC version was out of beta, money would be involved there too. Whatever the case - I like FORScan far better than my (working version of) AE for many reasons. When it's time to pay for FORScan, factor that into the decision process - the $350 commercial software has nothing over FORScan in function.

 

Yes. This is the path that I chose, and I couldn't be happier with the NGS (New Generation Star) scan tool that was the official Ford dealership proprietary diagnostics and programming device when our vintage trucks were new.

 

There are many meters that log data. Some also Graph timeframes which work well for a Hall Effect Sensor or Electrical Anomaly. And, many that also connect to a PC as a peripheral for logging and comparing in programs.

The difference between a DSO (Digital Storage Oscilloscope) and Meter is the sampling rate. A Scope can capture In the "millions of milliseconds". Where as the Meter is an average of a predetermined timeframe.

What this means is: You would miss (or not see) on a Meter Display, that which you capture easily on a DSO.

As for "High-End", I think often people confuse price, name brand, etc. and assume it is a "High-End" device. When, in fact, as an example, in Automobile Diagnostics a $150 - $200 Meter designed for troubleshooting beats the $800 - $1,000 meter every day of the week and twice on Sunday. I have a couple Flukes that have not seen daylight in ten years.

One could make the argument that a DSO replaces and makes obsolete just about every meter. For years I carried a uScope and leads in my pocket and that was my initial diagnostic tool. It's a single channel Scope which by no means replaces an 8 channel Pico. But, 99.9% of the time it will lead you to a diagnosis in a brief period of time.

By the same token, in the 90's I had a $2,000 Scope which collected dust in my tool box for many years as I was intimidated or, just felt it was beyond my functional level to use. Until things made it necessary in the late 90's and I had to learn how to use it or, loose my job. I kicked myself for not learning it earlier.

What I discovered at 45 years old was: anyone can learn something new and better. It just takes commitment and time to do it. I learned a lot from a snot faced 20 year old about Scopes. Maybe more than any training class I took. But, he learned a lot of short cuts from me you won't find in service manuals.

It all comes down to don't spend your money until your ready to commit your time to learn it. Scantool ,Meter, DSO, or Screw Driver.

Otherwise you'll end up like me. I've probably wasted $50,000 over 30+ years in tools that sat or I didn't apply myself to the learning process.

 

Well put. Experience, good and bad, leads to wisdom. I'm hoping this ole fart can learn a few things from you younger-stirs!