do the 6.4's an have an external filter? if they do not does that mean the internal filter does the job?

 

They do not have the external filter--just the in pan filter and it filters 100% of the trans fluid ie: is all the filtration needed.

2006 F350 4X4

 

They both "do the job" by themselves. The question becomes which one is better and why, or, are they best together?

 

Good lord

2006 F350 4X4

 

I suppose it would be best to have both. Do I think both are needed? No, I do not.

The newer filter, according to the design engineer that designed BOTH filters, has a smaller micron rating and filters 100% of the fluid flowing through the transmission.

The bypass filters 10% of the fluid flowing through the cooler lines. 100% of the fluid does NOT go through the cooler lines, but for the life of me I don't remember the split. Let's say it's 90%, that's probably in the ballpark. So when the trans is warmed up and full flow is going to the cooler the bypass filter is seeing 9% of the total amount of trans fluid.

When the trans is cooler than 165F the cooler flow is cut by 90%. So now 8% of the total flow goes to the cooler, and 10% of that is filtered. So below 165F 0.8% of the total is filtered.

So while filtering 109%, or even 100.8%, is better than filtering 100%, I don't think it is enough of an improvement to spend the money to replace the external filter. You may feel differently, and then you should replace the external. The trans will be fine either way.

 

Let's be honest, you could use the aftermarket pleated element from China that goes in the external filter and still probably be just fine. Right?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Auto-Trans-Filter-Kit-PTC-F-224-fits-03-06-Ford-F-250-Super-Duty-6-0L-V8-/360752468035?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item53fe85d043&vxp=mtr
Of course nobody here would want to make their truck better than it was from the factory...

I wonder why everybody in the 200 degree thermostat thread didn't get all upset? How dare you question the OEM thermostat?

 

Mark, do you know who the manufacturer of the internal pan filter is? The external version is made by NTZ and I have contacted them for a micron rating. I can't find a manufacturer for the other filter. I'd like to find some real numbers.

Generally speaking, in the oil filter world, a "toilet paper" type bypass filters filter to a smaller micron level than a pleated paper element filter. You can ask any engineer. If this is not the case with the two Ford filters then I apologize, but I have seen no real numbers on anything here.

Some people are not understanding the difference still. Full flow filters catch everything, yes, that makes them better. Bypass filters don't filter the entire stream, but they do (generally) catch smaller particles. This is why many people install a bypass oil filter on their engine. They don't get rid of the main oil filter, they keep both, and they work better together than each could apart. The bypass filter doesn't need to filter the entire stream to be effective.

 

You are seriously making generalized statements about toilet paper roll filters being better (finer filtration) than pleated filters (and I bet that they aren't made of paper). We are supposed to blindly believe you and believe that it is applicable in the specific application of the Torqshift filtration ............... after berating Mark for not posting numbers??

Post numbers and data please.

 

You don't have to believe anything. Again, I'm just asking for information. I didn't say it was or wasn't applicable here. Nobody can really say without the micron ratings.

Obviously you haven't been reading this thread, that is what I have been asking for.

 

I would like to see numbers on TP toll efficiency in oil service vs pleated filters. That is the generalization you used that I was referring to (and that you didn't quite catch ....)

Good luck on getting numbers for the ratings on the transmission filters - I hope you are successful. I think it would benefit us all if that information were available. Unfortunately, many companies protect that information and they require employees (past and present) to protect sensitive information as well. Maybe the filter micron rating is not sensitive, but I have had to really dig to get the oil and fuel filter micron ratings. Many sources of information have dried up since finding filter ratings for those services.

 

I'm not going to argue with you here about random filter efficiency numbers. Again, just look at engine oil bypass filters. They work on finer particles than the OEM engine oil filter would. The same can be true in the transmission.

Are you going to tell me there aren't people on this forum running aftermarket bypass filters on their engine?

 

I would guess that not many are. Hard to prove the benefit. Even if bypass filters do remove smaller particles (and I agree that they should and probably do), it becomes the same un-resolvable argument (or discussion) - just what benefit does it truly provide (and is it cost justified).

Regardless - I like information as much as anyone else - even if I choose not to take action on it.

edit - years ago there was one member that was a big advocate of the bypass oil filter (not a TP roll filter though) - Beachbumcook I believe. Haven't seen it discussed much since he quit being active.

 

I agree, most people will not benefit. But think about it this way: If your engine had an empty canister already installed in an oil line, would you put a bypass element in it or just leave it empty? I would use the extra filter and that's my advice. You don't HAVE to. No, it won't make your truck last forever either way.

Some people really do keep their truck for 500, 600, even 700,000 miles, and they are members here. Every bit of filtering could help anybody else get there too. Most people get rid of their truck long before 300k however.

I'm not saying anybody needs to go out and install an aftermarket bypass filter on their transmission. (although you could) I'm just saying you might as well use the one that's already there. Not sure why anybody would want to "upgrade" to the other style and then not do anything else to help their truck. OEM filters are less than $20.

For me it's more about fluid life than transmission life. Mercon LV isn't cheap, and this trans requires quite a bit of it! I want my fluid to last as long as possible. Ford didn't have that same goal when they designed the trans. They wanted you to bring it back to the dealer at regular intervals. They also don't want it to last forever or you won't buy a new one. They also have been known to make mistakes. (ever hear of the 6.0 engine??)

 

Did you know that the Ford procedure after a torqshift overhaul was to add an "in line" filter element like the magnefine filter? It has been a long time since I read the TSB (or wherever it came from). I guess I will have to re-read that. The interesting possibility is that the reason for adding it is because the bypass filtration concept may not be enough filtration if the particle load is thought to be heavy.

As far as extra filtration goes, the only reason I could think of to not run both (I would love to be one of the 500k mile + people), would be because of the extra pressure drop, the fluid flow profile might be affected somehow. Even that concern would be a stretch IMO.

All-in-all, I like the idea of the full-flow filter (and it would not have to filter as fine as the bypass to have a benefit IMO), but I suspect that as it becomes more difficult to change the filter, more people will be tempted to push the change interval.

btw, just as an fyi to be contained in this thread, the recommended interval for changing the full flow filter is 60k miles.

 

So you are more concerned about the life of $60-$70 of fluid vs. the whole transmission? If that's the case, install the 2008 trans pan/FT-180 filter AND keep the external filter.

Who gives a crap about micron ratings....you can look at the FT-180 filter and clearly tell it will filter much better than the original filter. Put some Amsoil ATF in it and drive that bitch.