This is a link to a thread started in Feb 2011 regarding how increasing +caster on an E450 Cut Away improved handling (+caster stopped wandering).


E350/E450 Handling Problems are caused by too little + CASTER


I just assumed this caster information for the E350/E450 was common knowledge when I started a recent thread on this site as to how one could DIY estimate the caster on their vehicle using a digital camera. By knowing approximately where the caster is presently set (as a DIY project), there might be value in seeking professional alignment services.


Maybe the Ford cutaway vans are manufactured at a different plant and come off the line with a different front end geometry settings. My apologies if this information is irrelevant to this forum.

 

While we are on this topic, have you ever wondered how an alignment shop interprets the caster alignment specifications for the Ford E350/E450 Vans.

The toe and camber do not require any interpretation other then there is the target plus or minus a tolerance.

Now try and apply that logic to the caster. The typical caster specification for the Ford E350/E450 vans (2010 and 2011) are:

LH 3.9 Degrees +/- 2.9 Degrees, that is a range of +1.0 to +6.8 Degrees.
LH 4.3 Degrees +/- 2.9 Degrees, that is a range of +1.4 to +7.2 Degrees.

So, if we use the same interpretation for caster as we do for toe and camber WHY do we need a caster tolerance of +/- 2.9 Degrees?
Is the alignment equipment that crude that a wide caster tolerance is required?
Obviously not !!!!
So, you might ask, where is this going?
In my opinion, if a given van is used for city delivery then align it to the bottom caster range for lighter steering.
If a given van is used for highway driving the align to the upper end of specification for stability.

So, how would you like a cheap and useful estimation of where the caster is set on the E350/E450 you are driving? Ans: See the current thread "Estimating Caster with a Digital Camera".
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...al-camera.html

 

My following replies are with all due respect and appreciation for your participation here.........

This topic isn't irrelevant here at all---its something we've all faced or will face over the life of our favorite vans. Unfortunately your approach along with digital photo examination and estimating of any steering geometry is at best misleading. Citing equations that supposedly can be used to more accurately extrapolate true measurements tends to make this whole proposal even more "incredible".

The key to proper steering behavior is quality parts installed and adjusted correctly according to established specifications done on equipment designed and staffed by those trained in front end alignment. Further what real benefit does all this offer? From my POV not much.

Even it if were highly accurate adjustments still need to be made which takes us back to proper equipment, the knowledge to use same and more importantly the ability/experience to interpret information derived from the before and after effects of adjustments made.

DIY alignment isn't a good idea no matter how "easy" or "simple" or "cheap" it might be.

If I weren't so polite I'd call this complete BS but I strive for better behavior here.

 

Sorry if I have come across as BS, for the clarity of this thread I wish to conclude my position with the following references:


RV.Net Open Roads Forum: Class C Motorhomes: wandering front

J-D Posted: 06/03/14 06:02am
START QUOTE:
" An OP here called Harvard tore this issue apart trying to get his E450 to track AFTER he paid a shop to align it. What he finally did was crank his adjustable offset upper balljoint bushings up by 2* Caster over where the shop left it. Went from around 3* to +5.0*L and +5.3*R and got it to track like a passenger vehicle. Everybody who's gone with his suggestions has reported vastly improved tracking.
But I have personally been to The Mountain. Visited the Mecca of RV suspension tuning. Hendersons' Line-Up in Grants Pass OR a couple weeks ago. I mentioned Harvard's 5* caster and John said "Sure. I worked in the shop 25 years and did lots of alignments. That's what we do." That settles the debate far as I'm concerned. "
END QUOTE:


Also:
http://www.disco3.co.uk/gallery/albu...ent%5B1%5D.pdf

Document Titled "Steering Geometry and Caster Measurement"
Stated Document Permission "Reprinted with permission from the SAE Technical Paper Series 850219"

START QUOTE:
"Caster cannot be measured directly, since one cannot mount a sensor on an imaginary steering axis. Instead, caster can be computed from changes in camber as the wheel toe angle is changed."
..........
Equation (8) Caster K approximately equals (180/3.14) X ((C1 - C2)/(T2 - T1))
END QUOTE:



http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fu...d/28154264.cfm


VintageRacer Posted: 01/18/15 05:39am
START QUOTE:
That is exactly how, in principle, caster is always measured in a shop. I would use turn plates (two pieces of plywood with some grease or a plastic bag between them), I would turn 20 degrees each way rather than full lock, and I use a digital protractor or a camber gauge to measure the camber, but that is in essence exactly how caster is measured. Race shops all over the country do that all the time. Astounding precision in the measurement technique isn't required, because as long as you do it the same way for all the measurements the errors tend to cancel out. For years I measured camber on my race cars with a level and a tape measure and a little math.
END QUOTE:


VintageRacer Posted: 01/18/15 09:37am
START QUOTE:
The OP's formula accommodates different and non-standard angles by going back to first principles on the measurement, so it would work fine. Using standard angles makes the change from camber to caster automatic and easy, though. Agree on the need for level and square to have truly accurate measurements, but I never drive on level and square roads, so for his purposes his way gets him the information he needs.
END QUOTE:

Thank you for allowing me to participate on your forum.

 

Given your user name how this thread is presented makes perfect sense if only to me.

However, this approach doesn't seem to consider measurements garnered from images are 100% dependent on more than a few things, one being where the camera is positioned when images are created. I don't see any mention of a common datum plane which in my mind makes this that much more capricious.

Please don't let my comments or disagreement dissuade your participation here---I'm just one person who tends to hold fairly staunch thoughts. The BS reference wasn't about you per se but more so the methodology presented.

Always feel free to add, introduce or question anything related to the E-Series vans here--we might all learn something useful at some point in time.

 

Thank you.


I have added information to my profile so as to possibly add technical credibility to my postings on things mechanical and electronics.


Please recheck the opening paragraph of my thread for camera orientation:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...al-camera.html
START QUOTE:


NOTES ABOUT THE CAMERA SETUP:
1. Camera lens should be in line with the outside side of the wheel.
2. Camera should be mounted on top of a stand (I use a bin that sits upside down on the ground) that sits on the ground such that the camera is parallel to the vehicle. The vehicle needs to be parked on a flat surface BUT being level is not a requirement.


END QUOTE:

 

Harvard, are you the guy who posted the link about wander caused by "too little +caster" some months back? Just wanted to say Thanks.
I tried most of the fixes posters on this board advised and things were fine for me, but not enough for my wife.
I had a hard time convincing alignment shops that was my only problem. My local shop hoisted it, checked all suspension parts and told me everything is fine underneath. then he showed me the alignment print out all components in the "green range". but there it was, Caster Lh +2.9 degrees Rh +3.2 degrees. He didn't think that increasing caster would help but adjusted to the max each side +4.9 and +5.3. Drives like a new ford van. My wife now says there is Only 1 more thing- getting the aftermarket backup camera to Work!

Also, just one thing about this post, I'm a DIY'R but in our day with all the Hi-tech tools why waste time trying to a Manual Alignment.

 

I am not meaning to promote the actual DIY alignment, I am trying to promote the concept of "one should know what one wants" before one takes an E series into an alignment shop. In order to know what one wants one might benefit from knowing what one already has to start with.


At any rate, it is nice to hear of your success, and yes I am the guy with the obsession on the topic of +caster.


If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a veteran.

 

Hi Harvard, I am new, 2days, but I must have been here once in 2013 as the records say. I am stating that I will read ALL info on Alignment! I will be living on the road in my 2006 E450 Cab only and a big box on the frame, it is a Lexington GTS by Forrest River Motorhomes. I departed my 40 FT Diesel Pusher because it was just no fun to drive! Therefore I want the best custom alignment the Class "C" E450 has some threads on the subject. Suspension has many comments; torsion-bar upgrades, shocks, suspension mods, etc, a lot to learn.
Here is my New-Bee introduction , I just can not find where to post it. Hello folks I am new and this is my introductory Post. My handle is 1996sunrise, 1996 was my First Ford Truck F150 Extend a cab, My first Ford was a used 1950 that I bought at 16 years old in1962. I had to park it down the street so my Parents would not see it! Those were the days. My second Truck is my 2006 Lexington GTC Class B/C purchased last week, it is a 2006 E450 Cab and Fame with a camper box on the rear I am 77 and still like to do my own work. I live in the extreme South West Arizona, which becomes the Hottest location (City) in the USA in 4 weeks I will try to escape in my new Truck camper. In the past 10 days I have replaced the headlight frames and bulbs using LED's, st my age I need all the Light I can get driving at 77 LOL, My Plates are Handicap Veteran hopping people give me a wide berth on the road, LOL I have a dry sense of humor. My next project is to address the "Death Wobble" issue Oh the 2006 E450 has 30500 miles, and the test drive at 70 MPH showed the absence of any shimmy, balance, drifting, or play in the steering linkage, hope I got a good one! I am not looking forward to any flying Spark Plugs. I hope to have many informative conversations. It is just me and my 4 legged partner Marley.

My objective is to find an alignment shop that will implement these custom adjustments, I realize it may require replacement Cams, and Autoacc Adjustable Front Alignment Caster Camber Bushings.

Thanks for your time.

 

Not an RVer, but considering a van for camping. Can you say, what years and models of E150-E450 vans & trucks have the caster/camber problem (if it doesn't only apply to RV chassis that is)? Wishing to avoid this issue entirely, don't have the budget for fixing it. I admit to complete ignorance on the subject, just came across this today: