Question for you guys in the know. I have always ran Rotella EC-1 ELC coolant in every diesel truck I've ever had. I buy it at the local Peterbuilt dealer. Just last week I flushed the system on my 2005 6.0 and started running Rotella EC-1 in it. I know a lot of guys like Ford Gold but I just can't see how all that goop that came out when I flushed the Ford Gold out can be a good thing. Anywho, a friend of mine just bought a 2006 6.0 and had to have the degas bottle replaced. I advised him to go ahead and flush his system and start running the EC-1. He went to the same Peterbuilt dealer to purchase the coolant and the owner of the Peterbuilt dealer told him to absolutely not run this coolant in his trucks cause it would eat the head gaskets?!? I've never heard anyone else say that. Apparently they're telling people not to run it in Peterbilts either. Anyone ever heard this?

 

Lots of people running EC1 with no headgasket issues. Not sure where Peterbuilt dealer is getting his info, but Navistar runs an equivalent in their trucks and they manufactured the engine.

 

That's what I told him when he called me to tell me what the Pete dealer told him. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I mean hell, it's coolant designed for Diesel engines!

 

In Fact that is just where I got my concentrate when I did the change over.

I think it's just more of the urban myths that keep popping up.

Sean



Marry Christmas

 

I'm sure it is but you'd think the owner of the dealership wouldn't buy into it! lol. I think I'm gonna call out there and ask them why they're still selling it if it's so bad!

 

Maybe Peterbuilt uses Dorman gaskets lol

2006 F350 4X4

 

Coolant OAT/HOAT edit
My current "project" is a '82 jaguar XJS with a 350 chevy engine. I ran across a interesting article on coolant on a Jag website here is an excerpt about OAT/HOAT. The link at the bottom will take you to the full article.

The green-dyed EG "conventional" coolant we all know and love has an
additive package based around a silicate (and sometimes also phosphate)
based anti-corrosion additive. It's well-established and does a good job.
It can go 5 years/50K miles without worry.

A few years ago, someone thought a long-life coolant (original plan: life
of vehicle) would be a Good Thing. This lead to Organic Acid Technology
coolant (OAT), which is marketed as "DexCool" by GM and has been
factory-fill in their products (except C4 Corvette -- not sure about C5
Corvette) since 1995. It's the orange or orangy-red stuff. Someone along
the line decided the word "acid" was a Bad Thing to try to sell, so OAT was
recursively changed to Organic Additive Technology. It can go 5 years/100K
or 150K miles -- provided it's not mixed with other coolant. OAT has less
cavitation resistance than silicate-based coolant, and can attack certain
sealing materials, so it's not a good idea to convert a green-coolant car
over to OAT unless the manufacturer says it's okay. OAT also has a
tendency to stain translucent plastics in things like overflow bottles and
pressurized de-gas bottles with a funky brown crud. Oh, and OAT from one
manufacturer isn't necessarily compatible with OAT from a different
manufacturer. Texaco is GM's OEM supplier and is licensed to use GM's
"DexCool" trademark on their aftermarket packaging. I'm not aware of any
other company being licensed to do so.

Many European automakers use a hybrid of OAT -- HOAT (Hybrid Organic
Additive Technology -- clever, huh?), which is the OAT package with a small
amount of silicates added to increase the cavitation resistance and make it
less aggressive against those seals and gaskets. This is often pale yellow
in color. This stuff seems to offer pretty much the best of both worlds --
it's not quite as long-lived as straight OAT, but it is much better behaved
in operation than OAT, much like conventional coolant.

Note that these three different additive packages are not really
cross-compatible. No, they won't eat the insides of your radiator if you
mix a little of one in with another in a pinch, but you'll be better to get
the system flushed out and a fresh mix of 50/50 whatever your car needs put
back into it.

Here's a link to the full article:
http://www.jag-lovers.org/lumps/faqs/coolant.html


(quote-Bismic)
btw - the ASTM limit for the low silicate formulat (Ford Gold D3306) is 250 parts per million max. There is less than 1/2 an ounce of silicate in the total system.

 

Coolant rated CAT EC-1 is fine for the 6.0. That Peterbuilt guy got some bad info and is repeating it. End of story, really.

 

That's what I was thinking. I was just making sure there hadn't been some drastic changes and I didn't get thermo! Lol

 

He's not completely out in left field, just behind the times.

As mentioned above, the DexCool (possibly the first OAT coolant) was and is hard on some sealing materials. It's been confirmed that International factory fills with silicate free OAT, which logically means the sealants and gaskets are made from materials resistant to the effects of the OAT coolant. Many trucks have ran this type of coolant for several years now with no problems.

The Ford Gold is a hybrid (HOAT) that Ford had on the shelf when the 6.0 was released and there was no OAT in the Ford inventory so the Gold was the recommended coolant, not because it was necessary but because it was available.

When I first went to silicate free EC1 coolant I went with CAT brand. I figured they wrote an often quoted specification so their stuff should be good to go. They don't keep the concentrate at my local supplier, only the 50/50 premix, so it's order and wait. After some radiator issues, I found the Rotella EC1 at my local Tractor Supply for a decent price and have no issues running it in my truck.

While many people blame the Jello like goo they've found in their coolant systems on silicate dropout in the extreme temps of the EGR cooler, and they may be right, I don't know of any proof this is the case.

Personally, I think you're fine to use either coolant if you replace the coolant and flush the system on the service schedule, and your truck isn't running extremely hot or has an EGR cooler delete. The ELC may be a piece of mind for you if you tow hot and heavy or are tuned with an EGR cooler still installed.

 

"Silicate" is a small portion of the phenomenon of silicate drop-out.

Aluminum, barium, beryllium, borate, calcium, iron, magnesium, manganese, molybdate, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate, potassium, sodium, or zirconium are all considered "silicates".

Silicates may be considered chemically as salts of the various silicic acids.

Look into a radiator and you'll see this:









Silicate drop-out.


Josh

 

Thanks guys, I think I'll stick with my EC-1 coolant.

 

Other metals and minerals certainly can and do bind with the silicate molecule to increase the mass of the silicate, but aluminum, iron, etc are NOT silicates by themselves. Agreed that it is a salt that you see as the precipitate, but the amount of SiO4 to bind with is limited in a low silicate formula. Plenty of non-silicate salts can form also.

The goo that forms has as much to do with glycol breakdown and reaction as it does with silicates. Air pockets probably play a role also.

The Ford Gold no doubt is more prone to having these problems than diesel rated ELC's, but in a properly maintained and operated engine with flushes at the proper frequency, the Gold MIGHT work fine (lots of people still use the Gold). Its just that flushing coolant every 50k miles (apprx) is for the birds. Also, the Gold formula is less tolerant of excessive heat.

The diesel rated ELC coolants are clearly a better choice - just don't use the DexCool formula ELC coolant. Could be mistaken, but IIRC the 6.7's use the DexCool style coolant, but not the 6.0L!

I recently read a thread by "Gooch" on the whole coolant choice thing - it was very good. I hope I can find the link.

I will stick with my ELC also (but I do not plan to push it to 500k miles). Just remember, a certain percentage of International engines suffered from plugged oil coolers too ( a WHOLE lot less than Ford's though).

http://www.schoolbusfleet.com/forum/...TOPIC_ID=20233

 

I would reckon those INT vehicles that experienced plugging were likely from shops using standard green to top off the factory coolant.

Isn't Gooch the antifreeze chemist that hates Ford Gold for diesels?
Josh

 

1) A lot of people like to exaggerate numbers to be "cool", ***** size, lifts and yes EGR coolers

2) It's obvious in that one thread only one guy has half a clue what he's talking about. The rest of them make it understandable why they are going thru 3-4 EGR coolers in 150,000. If in fact they truly are replacing that many.

Josh