engine tuning questions
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,943
Likes: 21
Okay. I know there is a slight differance with reading the egts in that location vs right at the exhaust manafolds. Off the top of my head I can't remember the exact temp drop, though I believe the Banks manual says what the limit for EGTs is in their location. It was either 1000* or 1100*......but double check to make sure. Either way you should be able to handle some more fuel and a couple more pounds of boost.
If you really wanted to you could add an intercooler. It will lower your boost a little, but will give you more power due to a colder air charge. With an intercooler you can probably max out your fuel screw and still stay in the sage range for egt and boost.
If you really wanted to you could add an intercooler. It will lower your boost a little, but will give you more power due to a colder air charge. With an intercooler you can probably max out your fuel screw and still stay in the sage range for egt and boost.
i ain't rite
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 65,564
Likes: 5,601
From: Marlboro Mental Hospital.
with a banks kit and the pyrometer in the turbo pedestal, they recommend to keep EGT under 1100 degrees. do you have a waste gated turbo? also, do you have a muffler?
on my non waste gated banks unit without mufflers i could easily hit 15+ lbs boost.
on my non waste gated banks unit without mufflers i could easily hit 15+ lbs boost.
Postmaster
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,941
Likes: 30
From: Maple Valley, WA
In some recent Dyno testing, I found 10* BTDC to make the most power on a setup that didn't need any help spooling a turbo with one of my 90cc pumps, a closer to stock fueling pump may require less timing, closer to 8.5-9* BTDC. Any more timing than 10* and it lost power across the board. With The older Banks kits, the exhaust side is so huge that 6* is probably perfect timing for those turbos, as you need a bit of a crutch to drive that turbo. The newer wastegated turbos can get away with more timing because you don't need the late burn to help spool the turbo, but I would say that there is absolutely no reason to have more than 10* timing on anything 100cc or less.
As far as Air/Fuel burn is concerned, the leaner the burn, the more you take advantage of the fuel you have. NMB2 made 2.8hp/cc with a lean burn, and on the other end, I made 2.1hp/cc on a very rich burn.... He was using the fuel nicely, and I was using the air nicely... The only time you need to worry about AFR is if you are limited in your airflow...
As far as Air/Fuel burn is concerned, the leaner the burn, the more you take advantage of the fuel you have. NMB2 made 2.8hp/cc with a lean burn, and on the other end, I made 2.1hp/cc on a very rich burn.... He was using the fuel nicely, and I was using the air nicely... The only time you need to worry about AFR is if you are limited in your airflow...
More Turbo
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 604
Likes: 2
From: Inman KS
So Racin, I'm curious what you think of my setup. It's a wg ATS, with the full 3" dia exhaust housing and 3.5" exhaust downpipe-back. Stock n/a pump cranked up 3-4 flats. Wastegate set at 11 psi.
I had the timing checked and it was over 9. We set it back to 8.5 and drove it for awhile. Then my diesel mechanic (different guy than the first time) said in his experience he had found that 6* was good, so he set it to that and that's where it's at right now. I like how it runs, and I think? it feels like it has more power here at 6*.
On your dyno testing, how much hp difference was there as you changed timing? Is it all in my head that it runs better at 6*? I know some guys over on OBN say that 9.5 is the only way to go.
Not sure who to believe or what to think anymore. I know it's probably a dead horse.
Thanks for reading.
I had the timing checked and it was over 9. We set it back to 8.5 and drove it for awhile. Then my diesel mechanic (different guy than the first time) said in his experience he had found that 6* was good, so he set it to that and that's where it's at right now. I like how it runs, and I think? it feels like it has more power here at 6*.
On your dyno testing, how much hp difference was there as you changed timing? Is it all in my head that it runs better at 6*? I know some guys over on OBN say that 9.5 is the only way to go.
Not sure who to believe or what to think anymore. I know it's probably a dead horse.
Thanks for reading.
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Freshman User
Joined: Jan 2013
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Likes: 0
From: Hartselle
It waste gated and I'm running a muffler.
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Freshman User
Joined: Jan 2013
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Likes: 0
From: Hartselle
In some recent Dyno testing, I found 10* BTDC to make the most power on a setup that didn't need any help spooling a turbo with one of my 90cc pumps, a closer to stock fueling pump may require less timing, closer to 8.5-9* BTDC. Any more timing than 10* and it lost power across the board. With The older Banks kits, the exhaust side is so huge that 6* is probably perfect timing for those turbos, as you need a bit of a crutch to drive that turbo. The newer wastegated turbos can get away with more timing because you don't need the late burn to help spool the turbo, but I would say that there is absolutely no reason to have more than 10* timing on anything 100cc or less.
As far as Air/Fuel burn is concerned, the leaner the burn, the more you take advantage of the fuel you have. NMB2 made 2.8hp/cc with a lean burn, and on the other end, I made 2.1hp/cc on a very rich burn.... He was using the fuel nicely, and I was using the air nicely... The only time you need to worry about AFR is if you are limited in your airflow...
As far as Air/Fuel burn is concerned, the leaner the burn, the more you take advantage of the fuel you have. NMB2 made 2.8hp/cc with a lean burn, and on the other end, I made 2.1hp/cc on a very rich burn.... He was using the fuel nicely, and I was using the air nicely... The only time you need to worry about AFR is if you are limited in your airflow...
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Freshman User
Joined: Jan 2013
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From: Hartselle
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,943
Likes: 21
Most people recomment the Ferret meter and a timing light that allows you to set the advance in it. I cant remember the exact model. Think a timing setup runs about $300.
Checking your timing is always a good idea to get the most out of your IDI, but I would recommend turning the fuel up another flat and then timing it. All your symptoms point to having more air than there is fuel (egts and lack of smoke). Also, messing with the fuel screw changes your timing, so if you timed it and then turned up the fuel screw you would want to re-time it.
Checking your timing is always a good idea to get the most out of your IDI, but I would recommend turning the fuel up another flat and then timing it. All your symptoms point to having more air than there is fuel (egts and lack of smoke). Also, messing with the fuel screw changes your timing, so if you timed it and then turned up the fuel screw you would want to re-time it.
Postmaster
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,941
Likes: 30
From: Maple Valley, WA
So Racin, I'm curious what you think of my setup. It's a wg ATS, with the full 3" dia exhaust housing and 3.5" exhaust downpipe-back. Stock n/a pump cranked up 3-4 flats. Wastegate set at 11 psi.
I had the timing checked and it was over 9. We set it back to 8.5 and drove it for awhile. Then my diesel mechanic (different guy than the first time) said in his experience he had found that 6* was good, so he set it to that and that's where it's at right now. I like how it runs, and I think? it feels like it has more power here at 6*.
On your dyno testing, how much hp difference was there as you changed timing? Is it all in my head that it runs better at 6*? I know some guys over on OBN say that 9.5 is the only way to go.
Not sure who to believe or what to think anymore. I know it's probably a dead horse.
Thanks for reading.
I had the timing checked and it was over 9. We set it back to 8.5 and drove it for awhile. Then my diesel mechanic (different guy than the first time) said in his experience he had found that 6* was good, so he set it to that and that's where it's at right now. I like how it runs, and I think? it feels like it has more power here at 6*.
On your dyno testing, how much hp difference was there as you changed timing? Is it all in my head that it runs better at 6*? I know some guys over on OBN say that 9.5 is the only way to go.
Not sure who to believe or what to think anymore. I know it's probably a dead horse.
Thanks for reading.
It probably feels good where you have it because of the WG setting you are running. Basically its lighting really fast and then the WG is dumping the excess drive pressure out the exhaust. This works with a limited WG setting because the housing isn't being choked and you don't need the extra bit of power the timing being set right on gives, basically you are gaining more by getting the turbo kicked into gear sooner.
We saw about a 15whp range from 14*BTDC to 5*BTDC, and a slight difference in the curve by adjusting fuel pressure from 6psi to 15psi.
Basically that's what I always say anyway, set it to where it feels the best, That doesn't mean its always going to make the most power in that setting, but just that it makes the best power where you want it to.
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Freshman User
Joined: Jan 2013
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From: Hartselle
It probably feels good where you have it because of the WG setting you are running. Basically its lighting really fast and then the WG is dumping the excess drive pressure out the exhaust. This works with a limited WG setting because the housing isn't being choked and you don't need the extra bit of power the timing being set right on gives, basically you are gaining more by getting the turbo kicked into gear sooner.
We saw about a 15whp range from 14*BTDC to 5*BTDC, and a slight difference in the curve by adjusting fuel pressure from 6psi to 15psi.
Basically that's what I always say anyway, set it to where it feels the best, That doesn't mean its always going to make the most power in that setting, but just that it makes the best power where you want it to.
We saw about a 15whp range from 14*BTDC to 5*BTDC, and a slight difference in the curve by adjusting fuel pressure from 6psi to 15psi.
Basically that's what I always say anyway, set it to where it feels the best, That doesn't mean its always going to make the most power in that setting, but just that it makes the best power where you want it to.
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