So I got my PHP Hydra installed last night and took it for a spin. After hearing many stories of people having a permagrin after taking it for a spin (PHP or DP Tuner) I was looking forward to it.

However, I can't honestly really tell much difference, on 80HP Daily Driver

Normally I would think that the tuner isn't working, but the whisper mode and high idle I put in work just fine. When switching between programs, it flashes as it should...no errors or anything erroneous that would tell me its not working. The truck works just fine.

My truck is a 99.5 f-350 with the ZF6. Truck only has 129k on the clock, so a weak HPOP or injectors doesn't seem likely to me. Since I can't just get on the go pedal and go WOT, I'm wondering if it's harder for me to notice? I would however THINK that a 30%+ addition in HP (though in reality probably not a full 80 since I'm running stock injectors, turbo, and HPOP) would be rather noticeable in the SOTP feeling.

It does look like the previous owner had something installed. When I pulled the PCM, someone got over zealous in cleaning and pretty much all the pins were down to copper. While I might think this has something to do with it, I've read numerous other people saying they got overzealous and it works just fine, and I'm not having any issues with no start, and error codes, etc. I used to correct tuner codes, as I made sure I was using the correct hex code for my PCM.

So, anyone have ay experience with this? Is there an easy was to tell if the tuner is giving the output, and the PCM using it as it should?

 

Maybe your PCM already had a tune loaded in it so you have never experienced stock?

 

There's a noticeable difference between stock and a tune on a manual. Cleaned pins sounds like there was a chip on it before, but once a chip is removed, so is the program. Unless they ditched the chip and stuck a program on there, you need to call PHP and discuss this with them.

 

My guess is weak HPOP. Not familiar with the Hydra, can you scan ICP? If so get up to 40 MPH and mash the pedal. What pressures are you seeing?
Bill writes his tunes so they do not set the CEL on low ICP pressure. I have his tunes and my first indication of a problem was my 80t had way more power than my 100 tune. When I hooked up AE I found ICP was dropping to 1700 psi at full throttle. I replaced my HPOP with the Adrenalin HPOP and the Permagrin set in. I now see > 2800 psi when I floor it.

 

Funny you mention that, I'm not sure exactly what the PO did with the truck exactly. Luckily it seems the person did care about the truck. I did have the guy who did my emissions last time ask me if it was tuned. I told him not as far as I know, and why? He responded that it was more powerful than he's used to seeing in those years F-series (they do a lot of diesel emissions). I just attributed it to being a lower mile truck.

I'm not thinking there was a tune loaded on it. I'll find out soon though.

That's what I thought. Before I talk to Bill at PHP...I want some reference to go off of number wise. I was reminded of something I actually meant to do...get an OBDII bluetooth. I'm going to get one of those and use the torque app to see what my numbers look like.

I don't currently have a way to look at my ICP numbers. But, as I stated above I'll get a bluetooth OBDII reader and find out what my numbers are.

I would still be hard pressed to think a weak HPOP is to blame, especially with so few miles on it. I did recently pull it out and do a complete dieselorings.com seal rebuild on it. I'll recheck levels to see if after bleeding it out its low on oil, thus not able to build up enough pressure.

If for SOME reason the HPOP is weak...I'll look at throwing a T500 or something along those lines in (though it would be a little while until I could).

 

I suspect you have a performance program on the PCM. The OP might have bounced between chip and program, as some people do. I have the chip AND a stock-power program on the PCM, so I can pull the chip and still drive normal with Stage II sticks.

 

I don't currently have a way to look at my ICP numbers. But, as I stated above I'll get a bluetooth OBDII reader and find out what my numbers are.

I would still be hard pressed to think a weak HPOP is to blame, especially with so few miles on it. I did recently pull it out and do a complete dieselorings.com seal rebuild on it. I'll recheck levels to see if after bleeding it out its low on oil, thus not able to build up enough pressure.

If for SOME reason the HPOP is weak...I'll look at throwing a T500 or something along those lines in (though it would be a little while until I could).


Mine had 60k on it when I changed it. Worked fine on stock non tuned truck, not so good on tuned truck.

 

Hmmm interesting.

Wondering if there's any way to find out if anything was loaded.

I know flashing a PCM usually isn't the best of things to do.

Fair enough...hard to believe such a simple system could go bad so soon.

 

A better way to look at it is hard to believe that tuned trucks need so much ICP to operate properly.
Good luck!

 

Allllllrighty...now for the numbers!

First off...I have to say the Torque Pro App is awesome!

Considering I have all of $4.95 into reading the truck (friend gave me the bluetooth reader he got since he didn't realize it's not Apple compatible), I like it!

So numbers...Stock:



With 80HP DD Tune:



So, in the short of it...I'd say its working just looking at the numbers from what I've seen around?

I did a WOT (as much as you can with a manual) run onto the interstate in both stock and 80DD, what is what the numbers above represent.

I'd say its working, since it actually somewhat scared me in the WOT test with 80DD (though part of that is due to my draglink needing replaced since its got a bad TRE, and it drizzling/wet out).

Some of the reason I don't think I noticed it:
1.) These trucks are geared SO damn low that its hard to notice it in the lower gears.
2.) I kinda drive with a rather light right foot. In my truck, I'm not a throttle jockey...more of a graaaadual acceleration (I want my truck to last, not totally kill my MPG, etc.) My car on the other hand...I have a heavy right foot.

BUT, I think the MAIN reason I wasn't noticing it before...I was WAY low on oil. How low? Well, I wasn't even registering on the dipstick

I just recently did a complete HPOP reseal along with the RiffRaff FRx, and I don't think I realized how much oil I lost doing that. I filled the HPOP reservoir up after it was done, but didn't have any extra to put it the main pan. Well, of course I get the Hydra in and forget about needing to put more oil in since I'm like a little kid with a new toy...

Luckily I had maybe all of 5 miles of driving on it before the light went off in my head. I don't think I had enough oil to get the injector pressure up.

So...reviewing numbers...would the peanut gallery agree it looks to be working? Sometimes the power of suggestion can be enough to make a person think it is what it is, so I'd like to verify it with others.

 

Your ICP is lying to the PCM. Pull the ICP connector and see if that blows your hair back.

 

Pardon my ignorance, but if I unplug the ICP, what prevents the oil pressure from going TOO high.

I have read about unplugging the ICP to determine if its bad, though those usually seemed to be for rough running type scenarios.

How/why do you think my ICP isn't telling my PCM the correct thing? Please...learn me

 

Pulling the plug on the icp will send the pcm into default and allow you icp to skyrocket. The pressure will not get high enough to worry about, do it and see what happens.
My hpop was weak at 110k miles.
Tugly isn't going to tell you anything that will blow your truck up, at least he hasn't done anything to blow his up yet and that shinny new steering wheel only helped

 

Ok reading around that's what I've seen.

Oh and I know Tugly isn't going to steer me wrong...I've read MANY MANY thread (been more of a lurker) where he has given damn solid advice, and I know he knows his way around the 7.3 very well.

I'm a Mech Eng., so naturally this stuff intrigues me. Since this is my first diesel and non N/A vehicle...I'm still learning. I don't want to just know what number I should be "seeing", but the why of it to. I want to know this system in and out

So back to the topic at hand.

From doing some reading around:

At idle my IPR % should be 10-13ish? So the 5.8 I'm showing isn't correct.

HPOP pressure at idle seems correct? 450-550 at idle.

HPOP pressure at WOT? 3170 on the low side of what I should be seeing?

Not sure what I should be seeing for MAP or injPW.

 

Well, back to square one I guess.

Drove it around today (to go get a new draglink), and I'm back to feeling like there's no difference in the stock vs. 80DD tune.

I pulled the ICP connector. It was a little oily on the inside of the connector. However, other than the SEL being on, and a stubly idle...no difference.

Ugh...now where to look?