Normal/Unloaded DEF usage
Laughing Gas
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 832
Likes: 110
Exact same experience with NOX customer satisfaction reflash about this time last year (or was it 2012?). I could not get only the tranny shifting component of the reflash. 2-3 mpg's just gone forever.
That would makes sense. In order to reduce soot during combustion and also burn it off more effectively in the DPF via passive regeneration, the combustion temps have to increase. But increasing combustion temps creates more NOX, which increases DEF usage. I had exactly the opposite occur with my truck. When it was new, it used a fair amount of DEF, but I saw very few regens and mileage was great. Unfortunately I had a lot of NOX sensor related problems. At some point the dealer reflashed the PCM. This fixed the NOX faults, reduced DEF usage, but reduced mileage by a couple of MPG, and I started to see a lot more regens.
I'd gladly pay for more DEF if I could get back to where I was prior to the reflash. Like the big Class 8 trucks, I believe that more regens equates to requiring DPF ash removal sooner than later.
I'd gladly pay for more DEF if I could get back to where I was prior to the reflash. Like the big Class 8 trucks, I believe that more regens equates to requiring DPF ash removal sooner than later.
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Junior User
Joined: Aug 2012
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From: Lancaster, CA
So, since my truck has a build date of 3/13, I bet your "customer satisfaction" re flash was standard on my truck. Now I just need to find the name of a GOOD PCM software and convince my local dealer to upgrade me to it!
Laughing Gas
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 832
Likes: 110
Matt,
What you need to do is have your dealer enter your VIN into Ford's Oasis system to check if there ANY PCM flash updates are relevant to your configured truck. Next question is whether that update is to address any of your concerns.
I don't think they will charge you for the lookup, but most likely will for any reflash unless you have a confirmed problem for which the update(s) were developed. If there are several updates relating to your truck, the latest update incorporate all of the previous updates relevant for your truck. Once you update, you cannot go back to any previous version. I don't know if this is an EPA or Ford restriction, but it just is.
If there have been say two updates since the one currently on your truck, and you happen to find a Ford technician that has not updated his "pc" to the latest updates, you could test out the interim update, see if you like it, and if not pay to do the next one too.
One last thought on your regens and def usage. You might not really be completing the regen. If not really complete, and only partial, you may or may not go directly into regen as soon as the truck is next up to operating temps, which takes at least 10 minutes from a cold start at 70 degrees. If the system got somewhat clean during the partial, it may be 25 or 150 miles until "backpressure" sensors tell system to start regen again.
The best way to confirm that a regen is really complete is to have nav and set mpg history to 5 or 10 minute intervals. Regen is dramatic reduction, in my case from about 15 to about 9 mpg, and this goes on for at least 10 minutes, and up to 20 minutes if driving conditions are ugly. When regen is done, indicator jumps back above 16. I try to run for at least 2 minutes after that to help cool things down, and reduce any oil dilution.
If you don't have nav, i think you have instant mpg feature somewhere. Just be mindful that coasting will give you 20 mpg even when in regen.
Yes more use since "NOX," but Def is a non issue for me unless stuck in real bad stop and go traffic.
What you need to do is have your dealer enter your VIN into Ford's Oasis system to check if there ANY PCM flash updates are relevant to your configured truck. Next question is whether that update is to address any of your concerns.
I don't think they will charge you for the lookup, but most likely will for any reflash unless you have a confirmed problem for which the update(s) were developed. If there are several updates relating to your truck, the latest update incorporate all of the previous updates relevant for your truck. Once you update, you cannot go back to any previous version. I don't know if this is an EPA or Ford restriction, but it just is.
If there have been say two updates since the one currently on your truck, and you happen to find a Ford technician that has not updated his "pc" to the latest updates, you could test out the interim update, see if you like it, and if not pay to do the next one too.
One last thought on your regens and def usage. You might not really be completing the regen. If not really complete, and only partial, you may or may not go directly into regen as soon as the truck is next up to operating temps, which takes at least 10 minutes from a cold start at 70 degrees. If the system got somewhat clean during the partial, it may be 25 or 150 miles until "backpressure" sensors tell system to start regen again.
The best way to confirm that a regen is really complete is to have nav and set mpg history to 5 or 10 minute intervals. Regen is dramatic reduction, in my case from about 15 to about 9 mpg, and this goes on for at least 10 minutes, and up to 20 minutes if driving conditions are ugly. When regen is done, indicator jumps back above 16. I try to run for at least 2 minutes after that to help cool things down, and reduce any oil dilution.
If you don't have nav, i think you have instant mpg feature somewhere. Just be mindful that coasting will give you 20 mpg even when in regen.
Yes more use since "NOX," but Def is a non issue for me unless stuck in real bad stop and go traffic.
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Junior User
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
From: Lancaster, CA
Matt, What you need to do is have your dealer enter your VIN into Ford's Oasis system to check if there ANY PCM flash updates are relevant to your configured truck. Next question is whether that update is to address any of your concerns. I don't think they will charge you for the lookup, but most likely will for any reflash unless you have a confirmed problem for which the update(s) were developed. If there are several updates relating to your truck, the latest update incorporate all of the previous updates relevant for your truck. Once you update, you cannot go back to any previous version. I don't know if this is an EPA or Ford restriction, but it just is. If there have been say two updates since the one currently on your truck, and you happen to find a Ford technician that has not updated his "pc" to the latest updates, you could test out the interim update, see if you like it, and if not pay to do the next one too. One last thought on your regens and def usage. You might not really be completing the regen. If not really complete, and only partial, you may or may not go directly into regen as soon as the truck is next up to operating temps, which takes at least 10 minutes from a cold start at 70 degrees. If the system got somewhat clean during the partial, it may be 25 or 150 miles until "backpressure" sensors tell system to start regen again. The best way to confirm that a regen is really complete is to have nav and set mpg history to 5 or 10 minute intervals. Regen is dramatic reduction, in my case from about 15 to about 9 mpg, and this goes on for at least 10 minutes, and up to 20 minutes if driving conditions are ugly. When regen is done, indicator jumps back above 16. I try to run for at least 2 minutes after that to help cool things down, and reduce any oil dilution. If you don't have nav, i think you have instant mpg feature somewhere. Just be mindful that coasting will give you 20 mpg even when in regen. Yes more use since "NOX," but Def is a non issue for me unless stuck in real bad stop and go traffic.
As for completing the regens, I drive 60-70mph on the ultra flat roads to/from work with the cruise set. I DEFINITELY watch as the MPG's go from 22 down to 12... Then jump back up to ~25 for a minute before leveling out at 22... Then I write it all down in my log book (start/stop mileage, whether it completes, anything weird that happens...). It's usually at least 6-9 minutes post the jump back to "normal" before I shut the truck down. If in the middle, I keep driving if it's feasible.
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MountainHound
All Things Towing
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Jun 29, 2003 02:35 PM
